How do I know I want to keep a buck....

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by togg75, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. togg75

    togg75 Guest

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    I have 4 does and no buck. I was hoping to keep a buck from them this year and I am sure that I should have more than 1, but my question is how do I know which one to keep intact? Can I tell from a young age which one I want to keep?


    Mark
     
  2. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Are you planning on line breeding? Because if all 4 does were bred to the same buck.... And most of the does are related in one way or another.

    To pick a buck here for my own use...I only keep from the Best doe, LA scores, show wins, production records, udder attachment, and my favorite added reason....the doe that has all the other things and I enjoy looking at. THEN I look at all the above on the sire, plus his dam, plus his daughters. And if he's eye candy or not. I have bought (reserved before birth) and killed bucklings just because they were, in my opinion, just too blasted ugly to breed to my does and I certainly didn't want to look at them every day.

    It takes one special buckling here to keep his *credentials* intact and to be used on my does.
    Kaye
     

  3. Ravens Haven

    Ravens Haven New Member

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    :yeahthat me too.

    Autumn
     
  4. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    There's no reason to keep 2 bucks from this year's breeding. With only 4 does, one buck is enough and will be a handful, without doubling your troubles. I'll be keeping 3 bucks this year...but that's 1 from each breed and will sell the ones used this year. Well...not the Obie, he's not going anywhere for several years...but I also have 10 oberhasli does. :biggrin
    Kaye
     
  5. togg75

    togg75 Guest

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    Did you say you have a buck for sale? :really
     
  6. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    yeah, if I were in Arkansas breeding Toggs, I'ld be knocking on Kaye's door for a buck kid. : )
     
  7. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    You took that wrong. I wasn't trying to sell you a buck, but if you want a totally unrelated Togg Buck, then yes, I will have one or two to sell. I was just giving you a way to determine how to pick a buck to keep.
    I really don't have to TRY to sell my bucks, the does pretty much do that themselves.

    I will even go as far to say...that if you want to purchase a buck with other totally unrelated lines, from out of state and are even better lines than your does...Eagle Creek Farm-Tim & Mary Schmidt is who I'd recommend.
    http://eaglecreekfarm.tripod.com/index.html
    Kaye
     
  8. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    Ah Kaye, but it's often those butt-UGLY bucks that end up throwing the prettiest does! :) And sometimes the 91 EEE show bucks don't throw squat! THIS, I know ;-)


    Tracy
     
  9. togg75

    togg75 Guest

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    I've talked to Eaglecreek, but like Kaye the are not PB Toggs.... :down

    I have found very few PB Togg bucks in Arkansas espically.....most Togg breeders have gone AM like Rowe farms, Eagle Creek, Tivo Farms, etc...
     
  10. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    You have been fed a line about Purebred Toggs. I hear it all the time here in Ark...but, it's funny that American Toggs stand at the front of the line in shows a lot of times. This year at Ark. State Fair...Jr. GCH & RGCH and Sr. GCH & RGCH were all Americans. Hhmmm?

    Reason I went to Americans...I got tired of getting beaten by them, their milk is actually better tasting, butterfat % is higher, and they add strong traits that are lacking in some of the purebreds. Now, if you want to carry on with purebreds...that's your choice. Because I'm getting quite tired of the PB vs AM war going on in this state. I feel it's sad that the breeders of Toggs can't get past this. I like the Americans, I like their looks, their milk, their production and the strong traits brought in with their genetics. I also like the way they place at shows. And I really don't care what prefix their reg. # has in front of it....as long as the animal it's self has the traits I desire.

    Stepping off that soapbox...but, I feel the breed it's self would benefit by cooperation without all the prejudice.
    JMO,
    Kaye
     
  11. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    The purebred vs. american thing happens everywhere and from our experience it is mainly pushed by purebred breeders who charge too much for what the production or showability of an animal is worth. They have to make that animal worth something.
    When we first started with goats, one of our goals was to have a Togg win Best in Show. Quite frankly the quality wasn't in the Togg breed around here. Our purebreds couldn't meet this goal but those americans could, we needed the american genetics to make the improvements we desired. Last year we had 5 animals win 6 BIS titles and none of them were purebreds. Likewise we use many purebreds on our americans because of of the improvements we need to make to that doe. We don't care what the prefix is because it is the animal that carries the genetic improvement not the prefix.
    Our americans out milk the purebreds on DHI and we do feel that our milk flavor has improved as well. I don't feel bad for not meeting the purebred market for animals because we are the ones that have to look at and milk our animals every day.
    Tim
     
  12. togg75

    togg75 Guest

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    Wait... I think that you both misunderstood what I was saying.

    I have no doubts that both of your farms produce fine animals. I have been to both of your sites and was in awe at the animals and show placings produced in the American bloodlines. My concern is that if I choose to go into American bloodlines the move is permanent and the PB prefix can never be restored to the offspring that my farm will produce. I see the benefit in the American genetics.

    Who will preserve the PB lines? I have PB lines now and I am torn in preserving the PB lines or moving forward like most breeders have into more diverse genetic pools in the American lines. I think that most of the top does in the country right now are American animals and the American breeders are improving the Toggenburg breed very much.
     
  13. KingsCoGoatGuy

    KingsCoGoatGuy New Member

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    We have the same thing happening here in Canada, the Canadians are out placing purebreds in most shows. More so in the Toggenburg & Alpine breeds then others. I in fact prefer to have purebreds but want animals who can show & milk their hearts out... I don't care if my papers say A10065445 or CA100655445. I haven't seen a big difference in the price of the two in my area.
     
  14. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Why preserve a dinosaur? :biggrin

    There will be purebred breeders that absolutely won't switch to Americans, that's their choice.
    You know, I've been looking for a Purebred Togg doeling to add to my herd for about 5 yrs. now, and to date...I haven't found one that I liked enough to pay the asking price on. The faults were still there that I worked hard to breed out. Why BUY them back into the herd?

    See...this is the only reason I ever hear for not breeding to Americans...preserving the Purebred status. That's not reason enough for me to breed purebreds.
    Kaye
     
  15. togg75

    togg75 Guest

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    You rebel......I'm telling your momma.
     
  16. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Ssshhhhh....she doesn't know I raise goats! She still thinks I go to tea parties and wear heels every day! :rofl
    Kaye
     
  17. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    Good grief Kaye! I almost blew coke through my nose.. gosh that stings! :rofl
     
  18. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    Kaye you gave me a good laugh, too! And I needed it!