Help with doeling please

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by susie, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. susie

    susie New Member

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    Ok to move if this is Off topic ( Boer doeling)

    Margie, almost 2 month old boer doeling 25 lbs, that can't/won't take a bottle she drinks "some" milk from a bowl 3 x a day. getting alfalfa/grass hay mix and calf manna and water. I had taken her water away yesterday afternoon to see if she would increase her milk intake. She didn't. just drank her few ounces. Just finished Cocci prevention last Thursday, has had one cd/t shot I was going to worm the three with Valbazen this morning, as I haven't wormed for tapes and out of the three she does look like she has a little pot belly ( even more so today) I have never seen segments of worm s though Saw her peeing this morning, seems like it's normal, not seen pooping. Temp 100.5
    Today Margie didn't get up when it was feeding time. She is in the house standing there shivering a little. Weather has gone from 70's yesterday to 44 today so far. her belly is round and full I think too full. Gave her some pro-bios and .25 banamine. she's just standing there obviously not herself.
    So I don't know how to proceed-- is she constipated or tummy upset because of the alfalfa pellets? I thi nk maybe I should give her vit b, but I don't want to make a pin cushion out of her unless it's necessary. An enema? I'd really appreciate help narrowing this down



    Thanks in advance,
    Susie
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    That temp is too low as you know. keep her hydrated and yes give an enema / probios/ BComplex and the banamine are all good. make sure she is pooping and get her temp up. I would myself force feed a bottle w/milk regardless dribbling it in until she swallows PATIENCE in getting on a bottle. yep would go ahead and worm her. What and how much are you using for cocci?
     

  3. susie

    susie New Member

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    cocci prevention : Dimethox 40 percent 1 cc/10 lbs the first day, then half that dose for 4 days. ( orally) right on schedule every 21 days, like I said I just finished it, thursday of last week.
    I've got some fluid warmed up now and am going to give her some with some Vit b.
    Thanks!
    Susie
     
  4. susie

    susie New Member

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    Update- temp now 101.5 have not seen poop- peeing very little not eating or drinking. Gave 3 cc enema nothing ... when she stands she stretches out like her tummy hurts gonna give more fluids.. now all three are sleeping-- I put them inside the barn to keep marge warm... hope they aren't all coming down with something... :(

    I'm afraid to worm her since she's not doing well-- waiting for a poop so I can take a look at it.

    Might have to give another enema?? Oh another symptom this morning - she was dripping spit out of her mouth...?just little drips but I know she wasn't drinking water. i was holdng her on my lap near the heatlamp to get her warmed up. what's up with that? i couldn't see anything in her mouth or throat that would cause that. She doesn't seem to be doing that now-- all three are resting.

    Any ideas what i should be doing/not doing?
    thanks
     
  5. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    GET some maylox or malanta into her she HAS GOT TO HAVE FOOD MILK preferred one way or another or else you need to do sub Q fluids If this were my goat she would be in the house and force fed somehow.
    I throw the book at them with probios /b complex /malanta/ CD ANTITOXIN/ worming/ cocci meds a sulfa so if it is ecoli it also treats for that. anything and everything because with doing nothing the kid is gona die anyway. NOT DRINKING/eating or Milk is not a good thing.
    totally disagree with you on not worming her. if it is worms eating away at her gut your not helping with anything else you do. Worming now is not going to hurt the goat and my save her.
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Sounds like she is stopped up. Bloated, perhaps from the feed and no water? Do you have any Banamine? If you don't know how to tube can you go to the vet and watch them fill her rumen full of oil with some baking soda...take some baking soda with you so they don't use the buffered aspirin they keep.

    Tapes can totally clog up the system like this also, but instead of the impaction being in the rumen it is in the intestines, they usually die from entero symptoms, kicking at their gut and screaming. Vicki
     
  7. cloverhillgoats

    cloverhillgoats New Member

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    I agree with Sondra. Worm her now. My mother in law has Boers and she just went through this with one of her two month old doelings. The very same symptoms. Off feed, no scours, drooling, no energy, etc. Her fecal count was over 300!! Can you believe that at 2 months old??? The vet gave her an iron shot and steroid shot. She also presented with tapeworms for a week or two after. My MIL swears the iron shot from the vet was what turned her around. (She is still giving her an iron shot, two weeks later). She also drenched with Power Punch 12 cc. 3 times a day. Use an eyedropper to feed her the milk or a needleless syringe. I have used an eyedropper several times with great success. She still needs stimulation, too. Rub her legs, talk to her, etc. Hope she makes it!
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    In thinking about this thread I think your age and weight on this kid pretty much sums up your worm burden or cocci problems your herd is having. This kid should be at least double this weight. I think Rachel and Sondra have this pegged. Vicki
     
  9. susie

    susie New Member

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    Just came in. I gave her fluid with Vit b sub-q throughout the day, pro-bios, wormed her, I gave her banamine, milk with a catheter tip syringe-- tried tubing her, somehow it will just stay in her mouth all kinked up... maybe I need a little stiffer catheter, but this one worked great for a newborn...?
    She's peeing good ...pooped hard berries can't find my slide to do a fecal... pooped too late to get it to the Vets. oh forgot that I gave her an enema too.
    temp is 101.7 she's just standing there looking very worrisome to me...
    I'm pooped.

    Susie
     
  10. Little Moon

    Little Moon New Member

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    Susie - do you have an update? I have been watching this thread hoping to hear she is doing better and to learn something, I wish I had some advice to offer. All I have is encouragement - keep us posted please. Good luck.

    Anne
     
  11. susie

    susie New Member

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    Temp this morning is 101. Gave some more banamine, vit b figured out a good tubing system gave her some milk about 6-8 oz, didn't want to give too much. Giving her the milk seems to have made it worse-- She had been walking around a little bit when I took her herdmates outside, she followed, but now she is hunkered up just standing. She's not doing too well :(
    I think for whatever reason her rumen is just not working and she's stopped up. I recalled yesterday that Monday afternoon I heard her cry ( she has a distinctive cry compared to the other two) Perhaps she was injured I don't know.
    We have an appointment at 11:00 with the Vet.

    Thanks for thinking of us--

    Susie
     
  12. susie

    susie New Member

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    forgot to mention I found some cd anti-toxin so will begin that today with pepto
    susie
     
  13. leslieh

    leslieh New Member

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    What was the vet report? Keep us posted.

    Leslie
     
  14. susie

    susie New Member

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    Just got home. Margie died :(

    This mornign her belly just started getting bigger and bigger-- very distended-- very quickly yesterday it felt firm-- today it was like she'd eaten a pumpkin.
    Got her there before 11 Vet went to get the tube right before she came back Margie started breathing fast with her mouth open. Got her tubed-- no gas escaping- put in some Therabloat and charcoal. Had to get her some stronger pain meds and put her on oxygen. poked her rumen-- no gas to escape, I massaged her belly for a long time, got her to burp about a dozen times-- her temp got real high because of the exertion took her out on the lawn where it was cooler massaged her belly she whimpered a couple of times then died.

    I feel awful-- poor thing-- frothy bloat- bad bad bad. Poor sweet stubborn Margie.

    Susie
     
  15. Belle

    Belle New Member

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    I am so sorry you lost her! :down
     
  16. Little Moon

    Little Moon New Member

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    Oh Susie I am so sorry. I wish I knew what to say.

    Hugs,
    Anne
     
  17. leslieh

    leslieh New Member

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    So sorry.

    Leslie
     
  18. susie

    susie New Member

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    I found a very informative article about bloats in calves and other young ruminants--

    http://www.merricks.com/pdf/bloat.pdf

    I've been wondering How to improve the outcome next time.

    Getting up-to date on everyone's cdt
    no sudden diet changes
    treat for entero no matter what
    have therabloat or bloat remedy on hand

    I'm sure the fact that I could never get Marge on the bottle was a huge thing-- the amounts of milk she could drink from the bowl just weren't enough were just not enough Had we not been concerned with her not getting enough nutrition , the Alfalfa pellets would not have been even offered, plus her general health was affected

    The other two girls are doing fine-- pounding down the milk. They're gaining weight very quickly- 17 pounds in 21 days for Tulla.

    I just wanrted to re-cap some things to myself, so I can make sure I take some good info from this, hopefully I will do better and have a better outcome next time.
    I just wish the lessons and mistakes weren't so hard.


    Susie
     
  19. cloverhillgoats

    cloverhillgoats New Member

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    I'm so sorry to hear about Margie. :( It's amazing that goats are so fragile~when you think about the "tin can" myth.
     
  20. Nancy

    Nancy New Member

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    Sorry about your loss.