Grrr...can't get this doe on the stand to milk, help!

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by farm mom, Mar 13, 2008.

  1. farm mom

    farm mom New Member

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    This Nubian cross (who is a big girl, weight taped to 195 or more pounds) won't get up on milkstand for us. She got up fine before her pregnancy, every day to eat her grain all the way up to the day she kidded. Kidded last Saturday and the twins are still on mom. We have been taking her in once a day to milk out one side because the twins aren't nursing on one side. She absolutely refuses to get on the stand. I am a small woman and I have pulled, my kids have pushed from behind and no luck. She also has to be hobbled and last night jumped and stuck both hind feet in the milk pail :nooo This is her second freshening and per her last owner (my daughters 4H leader) she had no problems with her. Would it be better if we took the babies off of her? She just stands and stares at the door to the milk room talking to her babies. She is top goat in our herd and I feel like this is a definite stand off but I am not sure how to win! This may be the last Nubian I own. She is worse than my donkeys!
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well I get both front feet on the milk stand and then reach for her tail MIND YOU I don't pull on her tail put usually up they go. Now I had one LaMancha that we built a ramp and walked her up the stand. Still took two of us to do it but fianally she quit the stupid act. She also was large and herd queen.
     

  3. backyard_farm

    backyard_farm New Member

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    I have a doe just like this also.(mine can also be mean and won't take care of her kids) the last few days when I would try to lead her to the milk stand, she would refuse to move. It took about 30 minutes to get her to the stand which is about 25-30 ft. from the goat pen. Then when I got her there, she would not get on the stand. Just like you, I tried pushing, pulling, etc. So I finally started picking her front legs up and pulling her onto the stand. It took about 30 minutes or more to get her on the milk stand. She would actually throw herself down so that I couldn't lift her up.Another time( during this same time period) she dropped down to her knees so I couldn't pick her up. She was determined she was not going on the stand and I was determined she would not win! Well, it took a lot of work but I won :biggrin
    The next day when she refused to walk to the milk stand, I lifted her up under her front legs(armpits) and walked her on her back legs only all the way to the milk stand. Then I lifted her onto the stand. It was easier to lift her onto the stand after walking her there as we had a running start. Today, she started to refuse to walk with me, then after I tugged a couple of times on her collar, she decided to go. At the milk stand she only resisted for a moment before she hopped up. So, I am hoping this she knows now she can't have her way. I also am on the small side, but I was determined she would not win and never gave in. Before this doe, I had already dealt with her sister(my other doe) being a pain and was prepared.
    I hope you are able to get your doe to behave for you also :D
    Belinda
     
  4. Cotton Eyed Does

    Cotton Eyed Does New Member

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    Do you feed her grain anywhere else? They like their grain and if they only get it on the milk stand then maybe that could be an incentive for her to get up there. She thinks you are stealing the milk from her babies and right now she is being more hard headed than you are. I'm lucky in that I am 5'8 and 195 pounds myself so I am able to handle the goats pretty well. If you are just trying to keep the udder even, to keep her from blowing her teat which will happen if you are not able to keep that one side milked out, maybe you could clip her to the fence, tight and up high and try that?? Don't know really how to help you. I've never had one that I couldn't get on the milk stand. I've nearly turned it over with a boer doe one time but she DID get on it whether she wanted to or not.
     
  5. Kalne

    Kalne New Member

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    We had a doe who stopped getting on the stand just out of the blue. Had to push and pull her on. It took a couple weeks but eventually she started getting up on her own again. It was a l-o-n-g couple weeks though. LOL
     
  6. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    I'm with Sondra, get their front legs up and grab the tail. We don't pull it either but a good hard squeeze will work wonders if you need it. Most of them will decide to go on their own as soon as you touch the tail.
    Tim
     
  7. Ashley

    Ashley New Member

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    You might try getting a switch. I make a cluck noise to my goats when I want them to move forward (I have horses too, :biggrin).

    So try walking her to the stand. If she stalls at any point on the trip getting onto the stand, cluck to her, then lightly tap her on the rump, continue increasing intensity until she moves (somewhat) forward. Even if she just leans forward or takes just one step, stop and pet her, then start back at clucking. If she throws and fit and tries to back up or whatever, just stay with her and keep up the tapping. Smack her hard if you have to, it's just a switch. Immediately when she moves forward, stop and maybe even pet her. If you are consistent, and don't let her get away with anything, she should start to get a lot better in a few days. She will figure out when you tell her to go forward, she needs to do it, or her bum starts to be uncomfortable and if she ignores that, even hurt. Pretty soon a cluck and maybe a lift of the switch and she will probably pop up there.
     
  8. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Also Either jump up on the stand in front of them grab collar giving More leverage to Pull her up with You! Or have someone pulling and put your toe under the rear dew claw and lift up with your toe, balancing on your heel. They will hop up quick usually. One front up, a tug and a dew claw lift. they are usually UP! but you also may want to take away her kids.
     
  9. farm mom

    farm mom New Member

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    I did finally clip her to the fence last night and just milked out that one side. But she didn't get any grain while I did it. I will try the tail trick when I milk her today. She is being a pretty good mother (this is the first time she has gotten to have her babies) but we generally have to give a bottle once a day as she will go through a time of not letting them nurse. Then they run all over trying to nurse off of anyone! I don't mind one bottle a day though, just in case we decide to pull them.
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    You have now let her win. Some women are simply too nice to have Nubians :) The idea that one of my goats can't be made to do something is soo not happening.

    Take away everything in the barn except her minerals, hay and water. She has to come up on the milkstand for her grain, then feed her alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets in the pen after milking. I start my FF this way. I also have my mean voice and think nothing of putting a spiked traning collar on them. I will lift a front foot and grab a tail, but if I have to do anything more than that with you....I growl, up, slap them as hard as I can on the flank and they do go up. Only one or two really ugly sessions and they know they have to mind, not only to get their grain but to also get down from the milkstand. I also slap flanks for kicking, I refuse to have goat that I have to hobble. I really do think my herd as a whole is easy to get along with because I cull deeply for problem children. I have sold does who simply wouldn't come to me at milking time. The idea of having to catch a tame doe twice a day for 300+ days isn't happening.

    Nubians are smart, and nubians are large, put that low center of gravity with the smartest breed of goat, and if you aren't stern you had better get LaManchas ;) Vicki
     
  11. Pairaka

    Pairaka New Member

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    Like Vicki says: Nubians are smart and they are big. You will never get a goat up on a stand by trying to lift one set of legs and then another--esp if she weighs as much as you say she does.

    What I do, and sometimes I have to do this even with my older does who seem to "forget" what getting up on the stand is about, is this: I get up on the milk stand (usually standing to the side), grab their collar, get it up under their jaw where it won't hurt them or choke them, and PULL and LIFT at the same time. They've got to follow that motion and will almost always put their front feet on the stand. (This is why you stand to the side.) As they are coming up onto the stand, you continuing pulling (and saying "Up!" all the while) their head up into the head lock and their back feet will usually follow. And there you have a goat in the head lock, suddenly she's got her nose in a pile of grain and you've got a goat on the stand. (To be honest, it might take a few tries to get the head in the head lock. They might overshoot or jump off the side, but you persevere and lead her around to the end and set her up and do it again until she's done it right.)

    Giving a treat now is good, if they like treats, and will sometimes make it easier in later sessions, esp if they see you put the treat in the feeder.

    And when I say PULL I mean it: You PULL!! I've only had one doe I couldn't do this with myself and that was when I figured out she wasn't getting up because her back feet needed trimming, not because she wouldn't get on the stand (she was getting very pregnant and her feet hurt and she wanted them trimmed, thank you very much).

    Sometimes it does help to have someone to keep the goat going in a straight line and/or help push from behind. Now that I know to *squeeze* the tail, I'll have to try that.

    Hmmm... Spiked training session collars. Haven't thought of that... I do use nylon dog collars with quick release catches on all my does. It's just easier to deal with them with a good, sturdy collar and from the number of times that Annabelle has lost her collar in our old cattle panel fence, I do know those latches will give if pulled on sufficiently hard enough.
     
  12. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

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    Does she ever slip or fall when getting on your milking stand? I have a couple who will balk if the rubber mat slides or if the stand is wet. Usually the worst of mine will go up with me pulling on the front and dh pinching tail...although not happy about it. Sometimes we do lift the front end up. Shake the grain pail a lot. So far I guess I've not had one be THAT difficult, even my FF's learn after a couple days that they can eat grain without being pushed around for once, lol.
     
  13. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well all I can say is I am small and my big ole Nubians and LaMancha's I can push around ask Vicki how big Divinity is. She came here weighs close to 200 lbs and decides she is not going to move for me tho she moved fine for Vicki. Let me tell you I am 5ft 1 and weigh abt 110lb and she gets up on the stand now like a trouper but had I let her buffalo me in the beginning who knows how I would be milking her now.
     
  14. Tim Pruitt

    Tim Pruitt New Member

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    Hey, I am Nubian breeder and this is not a Nubian problem - it is an owner problem. Goats of all breeds will challenge you - however you have to accept the challenge and MAKE THEM MIND!!! Mine have no other choice - they are going to mind. I am going to win and THAT'S IT! Lead that goat up to the stand - pull her up as close where her chest is on the end of the stand. Lift up a foot if necessary and pull hard - stretch her neck toward the stanchion, and at the same time grab the tail - pull -sqeeze or twist, I don't care - just make her move. If this doesn't do the trick - sell the goats and get you some goldfish. :rofl
     
  15. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    yep not a "nubian" problem, mine I just freshened on the 5th has been jumping on the stand now unassisted for only three days, and she's a saanen, not to mention the sick saanen I had who did NOT want on the stand cause she knew I would inject her with calcium. she' s 250lbs. I like the toe under dewclaw method but darn it they got on the stand. I haven't had any of the 5 nubies I'm milking right now pull it.
     
  16. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

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    You know, this is a really helpful thread. Might be worth saving.

    Because its not always a case of an owner who wont control their animals, its often a case of not being sure what to do and what makes it work. The tips and tricks you guys gave here are great. It helps to know how far you can go without being considered abusive, and what they will respond to and tolerate without creating behavior problems.

    I dont recall ever hearing the one about the dewclaws, and its probably going to come in handy some day.

    I had the same problem with FF last month. The tip Tim gave me about locking her head in when she stretched her neck into the stanchion, then lifting her back legs on, was priceless. I would have been afraid to do that without hearing it worked for someone else for fear of damaging or breaking a neck if she struggled. Tried it the very next time after he posted it and it worked like a charm! Now she just follows me in and jumps up by herself,most times, tho occ she does wait for her free ride!

    Ive never seen a thread on Appropriate Goat Discipline anywhere and this might make a great resource. How do you handle other behavior problems?
     
  17. farm mom

    farm mom New Member

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    Well, thanks all. She got on the stand tonight and Vicki if you saw me you would never be calling me a wimp. I had a leash around her neck, pulling HARD from the front, her chest was right up to the milking stand with her front legs splayed and braced against the stand. I smacked her on the flank hard with the end of the leash. She got smacked when she tried to kick too. My daughter was helping me also. Unfortunately I injured my shoulder last week and doing this was excruciating but I worked through the pain today and ignored it. I definitely don't let her walk all over me. I had to give up yesterday out of sheer pain but today we persevered and got her on the stand. We will see what tomorrow brings. I train 1,000 lb horses here and mine have excellent manners so I do know a thing or two about putting my foot down when needed!

    And no, this doe has never slipped on the stand or had any negative issues, she was just being a butt!