goaty cheese - Raw vs pasturized

Discussion in 'Cheese & Dairy' started by kidsngarden, Jul 12, 2008.

  1. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    I milk into stainless buckets, sanitized via the d/w with heated dry cycle. Teat wash is the bleach/water solution Vicki has suggested. My does are dairy clipped. I milk one doe, come inside, filter the milk into quart size jars and put them into cold water with frozen bottles of water in it. Then I go out and milk the other doe and do the same with her milk. In 1/2 hour I can only get my milk to 60 degrees. I know it needs to be 40 so I am going to try to use quart size freezer bags and see if I can get it cooled faster.

    My milk will only stay ungoaty for 2 days tops which is ok by me because then we either soap it or give it to the chickens so it's never wasted. But this does not seem to be working for me with cheese. I've tried fromage blanc twice with raw milk - tasting each quart for goaty-ness before I make the cheese. The first time I had a quart of frozen milk I added to the fresh. The second time I had 2 quarts milked and cooled the night before and 2 quarts fresh from the doe. It still comes out goaty. This is very frustrating.

    I've read that pasturizing helps to eliminate the enzyme that causes the goaty flavor. If I pasturize do you think it will help?

    My understanding is that I get the milk to 86 and add the culture then take it out of the water bath and let it rest covered 6 hours, then drain, etc. Am I doing it right?

    What I don't get is how if cooling quickly is key to not being goaty and then you are having this goat milke warm for at least a have a day with it turns to cheese, how can it not be goaty? I would really prefer to make raw milk cheese, but not if it will be goaty!
     
  2. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    Bethany, In my opinion pasteurized goat milk tastes terrible :ick Cooling can be difficult but it stabilizes raw milk very well.

    Once you add the culture you allow the good, desirable bacteria to grow. This bacteria produces a pleasent flavor. It is way different than letting milk sit out.

    Cheese is, in essence, concentrated milk. You may not notice a goaty flavor in your milk but once it is concentrated into cheese it becomes stronger and shows up. Two days is a VERY short time for your milk to taste sweet. Barring milk handling, which it seems you have a handle on, here are some things you might want to consider, the stage of lactation in your doe, does she have access to any weeds that could produce an off flavor, and good udder health with low SCC.

    Christy
     

  3. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    Thanks Christy...

    My goats are out in the woods eating all sorts of stuff...Blackberries, clover, thistles and tons of grass all over the place. The dandelions are not out right now - I here dandelions cause nasty milk. I don't know what to do about what they eat short of penning them up and giving just hay (though there is a lot of grass in there large pen) or making real pasture (which is not financially feasable right now - really I don't want to hay them either as now is my "Free of hay" financial freedom!).

    My goats are healthy, but I don't know what SCC is?

    Yes, pasturized milk tastes pretty "cooked". I don't hate it, but don't like it as well as raw. So if I do pasturize how will it affect my cheese taste if the goatiness is due to browse?

    I hope I can make cheese...I just bought the hoeggers starter kit...Maybe I'll only make cheese in the winter when they are on hay.
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well you could pen them up giving alfalfa pellets only for a day and then use the next days milk and just see if it makes a difference. SCC is somatic cell count which varies as lactation progresses also mastitis etc
     
  5. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    They have too many weeds in their pen unfortunately.

    I am beginning to wonder about Capella. She has this lumpy udder, she was tested for mastitis and CAE, etc. All negative. I wonder what the SCC #'s are - the would have checked that in the mastitis test correct? She had a precocious udder and was lumpy after that even after both her kiddings. It's just really messed up. her milk is not very good period, creamy, but not sweet. Almost buttery tasting.

    So now I will try to get enough fresh milk out of Madam only and try to make cheese with that.

    My BIL says he likes goat cheese, but they all have had an off flavor too them that he has had...are my expectations too high? Do I need a cow to get ungoaty cheese?
     
  6. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    Store bought goat cheese is goaty. Most home goat cheese makers don't make it that way. If the milk isn't 'right' fresh from your goat you won't get the flavor you want from your cheese. With good cultures and good milk you will get good cheese. It is most likely that your problem is linked to Capella's poor udder health, try Madam's milk.

    Christy
     
  7. steffb

    steffb New Member

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    I strain into glass jars and set them into a sink off cold tap water filled with ice. I also have a fish tank pump in there to circulate the water. This will get my milk down to 45 in two hours. I also do not think the dish washer will get the milk stone off. I sanitize with a chlorine solution.
    I have a legal raw goat dairy and all are the regulations of the Dept. of Agri. here in NY.
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Was thinking that also Steff abt the DW
     
  9. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    Could you tell me how you make your chlorine solution? Thank you.
     
  10. steffb

    steffb New Member

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    I use clorox, the only brand that NY allows, mixed about 1oz with 1 gallon of water. Let it sit for 2 mins ,then air dry. I do have those little litmus papers to tell me if it a strong enough solution. It tends to loose effectiveness after a while.
     
  11. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    I know I am mainly a "lurker" but I only use fresh milk for making vinegar cheese or any "cooked" milk products...like pudding, custard, vinegar cheese, etc.

    Also, we strain our milk into glass jars which then go into cold water with ice packed around the jars and then into the refrigerator. Maybe that will help cool your milk more quickly (?).

    To avoid milk stone build-up, I spray our jars and pails with full strength vinegar, then rinse, then sanitize.

    And with proper handling, your milk shouldn't be goaty after a few days. It may be time to start looking at your goats, possiblity of sub-clinical mastitis, their diet, cleanliness of housing, fresh water, etc.

    Just some suggestions that I hadn't seen posted for you.
     
  12. coso

    coso Guest

    That was my thought a sub-clinical mastitis may be affecting the keeping ability of your milk especially after what you said about the lumpy udder.
     
  13. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    I'm convinced that it is something they are eating because since Saturday night I have only kept Madam's milk (healthy udder as far as I can tell) for drinking. Today, Saturday's milk is goaty and yesterday I tried some just milked and chilled and there was still a faint taste - still ok to drink, but I could tell it was there - of course I've been so consumed by trying to get good milk it could be in my head.

    As for Capella if she has subclinical mastitis, can that not be detected in a regular test? how do you get rid of it? I'm not sure what that is.... Again she has had lumps since long before her first freshening - since she had the precocious udder.

    So now I will be going over things with a fine tooth comb. Things I am able to change right now. If it is something they are eating then there is not much I can do about that with our current set up so I am really hoping that it's something else.
     
  14. coso

    coso Guest

    You can send a sample to a lab to see if she is sub-clinical. LSU (I think) is where a lot of folks on here send theirs to. I know Vicki has said that CMT test you do at home will not usually catch it unless you have some reference point from a clean test on the doe to go from.
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    by chance do you have wild onions out in the pastures??
     
  16. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    They are in the woods, so no "pasture" which makes it hard to know exactly what they are eating. I've never seen any wild onions out there myself.