For Those With Grade A License / Question

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by KJFarm, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    For those of you who have a Grade A dairy in operation, I am wondering what wormers you are allowed to use on your milking herd and the withdrawal time for the wormers. Is there any solid research out there that tells if the wormer residue shows up in your samples, like antibiotics can?? Had this question posed to me this week and thought I would ask here.
     
  2. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    When I worked at a commercial dairy, we had to worm with Eprinex. It was the only wormer approved for commercial dairy goats and the milk from the does could be sold witbh no withdrawal time. My friend did not think it was as good as Ivermectin, so she would usually worm with Ivomec upon kidding when the colostrum wasn't being added to the tank anyway. How she explained things is that Ivermectin probably wouldn't affect the milk either, but all the necessary testing hadn't been done to approve it's use. The thing with the antibiotics is that it can affect the way cheese sets up and there may be a rare person who would have anallergic reaction to an antibiotic. Goats who required them would be withdrawn from the commercial milking string for the period of withdrawal and their milk pasteurized for kids. Kathie
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    In the biblography that goes with the chapter on worming goats, there are many testings on ivermectin that show that it is a very long 20+ day withdrawal. Now we know that Ivermectin when used with the carrier for Eprinex does not bind with the butterfat so it gives you a zero milk withdrawal. But it's supisition like it was with Cydectin because it is off species, it's off route, and has not been tested. And we also know Cydectin off species and off route has a milk withdrawal. I would never use Ivermectin injectable orally and then sell milk out of the doe, use it for us fine. Cydectin yes, because truly by the time the doe is on the milkstring for milksales it's gone.

    But no Janie there is no testings done. You only have to look at the horrid conditions of most places to see that nobody is watching out for the animlas or the milk. When we did milk residue samples through A&M for Valbazen it was expensive and really inconclusive, now that we have upped the dosage we use the 48 hours on 4cc per 100 pounds would surely be wrong again. Vicki
     
  4. steffb

    steffb New Member

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    Here in NY grade A refers to interstate shipping, can't ship raw milk , so no grade. But totally legal to sell raw milk.
    There are no rules for wormers here but we use herbal wormers which do not leave any harmful reside in the milk ever(except for wormwood in pregnant women).
     
  5. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    but we use herbal wormers which do not leave any harmful reside in the milk ever(except for wormwood in pregnant women).
    ..................................

    You don't know this. Has the mixture you use ever been through a milk residue test? No. Vicki
     
  6. steffb

    steffb New Member

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    Vicki the herbal wormer contains- garlic, fennel, stevia and fenugreek. I do not believe it matters if there is garlic or fenugreek in the milk residue.
    All things you know are safe for humans as well as goats. Why do you keep knocking it down.
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Steff
    EASE UP!! she isn't knocking it down per say she is simply asking if it has ever been tested out, which she doesn't believe it has, nor do I. I know of only one resent test regarding herbal wormers and it wasn't for milk residue. All wormers whether herbal or chemical leave a certain amount just depends on each state lab and rules as to what can be used and not used. WE do know tho that down here in TEXAS where KJFarms is that herbal wormers are very risky to use as not very effective. And we never recommend them on this part of the forum at all, for the world at large to see. Now if you want to discuss herbal wormers and how you use them we do have a separated area once you hit the 100 post mark. I personally use many many herbal remedies for my goats just not for worming here in the south.
     
  8. Katarina

    Katarina New Member

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    "Why do you keep knocking it down. "

    Because it is not effective in our area (if at all, tho it would sure be nice if it DID) and she doesnt like hearing of goats being harmed.

    People come here for honest advice. Vicki's ecperience tells her that herbal wormers are not useful at least down here.

    I do agree that if those are the only ingredients in the wormer then it wont matter if it ends up in the milk, save for possibly taste.
     
  9. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    garlic, fennel, stevia and fenugreek.
    .................

    And lets get real here. None of the above has any effect on blood sucking worms. You don't have blood sucking worms Steff if you are using that.

    What worms do you have on fecal? What worms eggs does it kill specifically for you?

    You are in NY, with freeze. If you have worm brudens it's from over crowding, from not pasture rotating, your minerals are inadquate...you do not have worms like we do in the south.

    Why do you keep coming on and touting the benefits? The same reason I come on after you and warn folks.

    WARNING: If you do not live in the frozen north, the use of this product will and can kill your goats, make you loose production of milk and meat. It kills or stunts your weaned kids. Elderly goats are also at risk. If you are willing to accept the risks than use this product, but with only frequent fecal samplings. No milk withdrawal established. Vicki
     
  10. steffb

    steffb New Member

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    For those who use it it works or we would not use it. You have not even tried it so how can you say it does not work.
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Again, we have to do this all again?

    Vicki
     
  12. Theresa

    Theresa New Member

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    I'll tell you how we know it does not work because it has been tried. All you have to do is see the forums in the spring of everyone in the south that has tried it and then are on forums asking for help. They don't understand why their does are not milking, why kids are not growing or are dropping dead. And when a fecal is done, tons of worms are found.

    You have to realized were we live is a totally different world from you. We have NO winters. If it freezes it is for less then 24 hours. If it snows, it is gone in 24 hours as in melted with nothing left. So, worms here do not die in the winter they just hibernate. That is why Vicki and others are so against herbal wormers in the south. They might work in the north, but not here.
    Theresa
     
  13. laughter777

    laughter777 New Member

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    I am glad I found this...as I had considered the herbal, but since I am in the South (Texas like quite a few members) don't think I will waste my money on it.

    Thanks,
    Sarah
     
  14. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Sarah
    I have said this time and time again as I would love to go all herbal/holistic If you have tons of acreage and can rotate pastures, having proper nutrition encluding minerals and trace minerals, then it would be possible to go to herbal wormers here I think But it also takes alot of extra work doing extra fecals and moving goats, building more pens etc. Just so we could really test it out. I for one am not willing to sacrifice the goats lives to do a test on what little land I have. NOW I do know one lady who has 3 goats the same old 3 goats she has had a few years. She uses only DE and it works for her. as she keeps no bucks and no babies ever. She breeds her does to my buck and I take the babies.
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Steff your being rude and not reading the posts thru evidently. I have already told you KJFARMS lives in TEXAS and she wants to know what the rules are for Grade A in TX and wormers to use.
    Enough said. Am glad you can use herbal in the north and would if I could here but it is not reasonable to risk the lives of the goats testing it out down here in the humid worm infested south.
     
  16. KJFarm

    KJFarm Senior Member

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    I didn't mean to open up a "can of worms" with my question. Just had someone ask me about drug residue in milk, if you had a Grade A license. I too, wish that I didn't have to rely on chemical wormers, but it's just a fact of life in our neck of the woods!!!
     
  17. steffb

    steffb New Member

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    Not being rude - I read the first post and answered it. Every one is always putting down those who don't do things like you do.
     
  18. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    Not putting down, cautioning people of the risk involved!

    I actually used for Herbal Wormer for two years with two new, clean goats on four acres of woody underbrush/woods that had been fallow for 20 years. My kids did not grow well and my does looked unthrifty. So, from experience I can say that it is not something I would ever use again.

    Christy
     
  19. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    I think one of the biggest points of this thread is that Steff's in NY and the poster was in TX. Totally different situation. I know that in my (NW WA) I do not have to be nearly as diligent with Cocci prevention as those down in TX. Having a good freeze makes a big difference. That said, this year we did not have a particularly cold winter so I was much more cautious about cocci, but still it is not a big issue for most farmers here.

    Just an example....

    And I was wondering with garlic in the wormer - doesn't your milk taste off?