For the bolus challenged

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Ashley, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. Ashley

    Ashley Active Member

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    For those of you who can't get a bolus down a goat to save your life, such as myself, maybe this will help you. The last two times I've bolused I've ended up with sticky pills in the flour, copper rods stuck to me, and when I finally do get them down, the goats chew them, every stinking time!! Last time I tried to be real agressive, get it way in the back of the mouth, one of them bled and it still managed to chew it. I can get pills down dogs, cats etc, but goats I just can't manage for some reason.

    So anyway. I mixed the measured amount of copper rods yesterday in honey, in a little bowl. I got a little tongue depresser and just scooped some of the mixture and put it in the goats mouth, since it's just honey, they don't chew it! They just licked it down. SOOO much easier for me, and the goats didn't hate me afterwards, they wanted more. I got a little honey on my foot, but other than that, no mess!

    Just do a little at a time, don't try to ball it all up on the end of the tongue depressor, it may ooze off before you get it in their mouth.

    I suppose you could use a syringe to put it in their mouth if the end of it is big enough to accomodate the copper rods.

    I can't think of any reason this wouldn't be just as good as giving them a pill?
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    maybe because of which stomach it goes into. Do you use a bolus pusher to admin the boluses?? I don't have a problem you put the pusher with pill in it in the back of their throat/push and walla it is down.
     

  3. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Yep. That study has already been done and I'm including it below on the different methods tried and the results.
    HOW THE COPPER BOLUSES WORK
    http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html
    Kaye
     
  4. Ashley

    Ashley Active Member

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    So are you saying it's not as good?

    Gelatin capsules dissolve in about one minute, could that minute make any difference? I would think it would go to the same place, the bolus goes in the back of the mouth and the goat swallows it.
     
  5. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    Where do you get the copper for bolusing? I've seen some for cows, is it the same product for goats?
    Thanks,
    Anita
     
  6. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    "When give orally, the gelatin capsule dissolves in the rumen, releasing the copper oxide rods"

    so why wouldnt the honey likewise dissolve in the rumen?
     
  7. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Read the article. It states plainly that given without the gel cap, it doesn't get into the right stomachs.

    You're going to do as you please anyway...so debating with me is pointless. Debate with Joyce who did the studies. I'm just directing you to a site where the studies, with research info., is printed.

    Anita, the copper boluses we use are cow boluses. Jeffer's. Actually calf-12.5g and we split them, putting the correct amount into each gel cap and administer them using a boluse gun. If you get them far enough into the back of the mouth, they're swallowed. Not had any problems here...and mine get bolused 4 times a year.
    Kaye
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Goats don't swallow liquids into their rumen, and that is where you want these pills to go first, we also don't want them chewed.

    The testing was done on over 2000 goats by Joyce and her club...I kind of think that would be instructions I would want to go by. Vicki
     
  9. Ravens Haven

    Ravens Haven New Member

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    Here is my question not to hijack this thread, but how often can or should we bolus? I know every area is different, but I have been bolusing every six months and I got behind this year it went maybe 9 months between not good, loss of tail hair and rough coats, funky feet issues, so How often do I need to do it to get them back in condition?
    Thanks
    Autumn
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    If you were having success with every 6 months, than get back on schedule and see if that will work for you. It shouldn't :) Read on saanendoah.com about how long the bolus actually is in the chambers of the stomachs, think it's about 4 months. You can have scarry high copper readings when you first bolus for about the first month, but it quickly goes down to nothing at about 4 months. Vicki
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Sannendoah site has directions and everything on making your boluses per goat weight.
     
  12. Leo

    Leo New Member

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    Petsmart sells a cheap pill/bolus gun(I think it was $1-$2) that fits the smaller pills, works great for me, and my fingers don't get pinched by their back molars.
    Megan
     
  13. Ashley

    Ashley Active Member

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    Please don't assume what I'm thinking, I've not even been difficult or anything (yet :biggrin- just kidding!)

    I'm not asking to be difficult, I'm asking because I want to understand. No point in giving the bolus if I'm not doing any good..

    Vicki, I understand when a goat drinks water, it doesn't go to the rumen, this is what you are talking about, right? But you yourself have said they have to stretch their neck out kinda to make that happen, when you see a goat drink, you can see how they do this. When they eat the honey, it's not done in that way, they eat it the same as if they were eating food, no different than when I've given boluses.

    How is it different to stick a wad of honey on the back of the tongue, or a capsule.

    Maybe I should take some pictures, and take some here in a month (would that be long enough) to see if this works?

    and yes I used a bolus gun... I think part of my problem is I can't feel what I am doing, like when I give a pill to something else (that isn't goinng to slice my fingers like a goat) and can use my finger and know where I'm at and get it down.
     
  14. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    you can use a piece of pvc pipe in the back of the mouth, and then stick the bolus capsul with your fingers.
     
  15. Ashley

    Ashley Active Member

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    Hmm, can you explain that a little further, I'm not picturing it too well. How long a piece of PVC?
     
  16. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Use a piece of PVC in the mouth like a bit on a horse. This way it locks the molars into the PVC and they can not bite down on your fingers. I have small pudgy hands and short fingers, even though I am not short :) I can not get my fingers past the PVC.

    Bolsuing is not this hard folks! Vicki
     
  17. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    The information tells you why you need to boluse instead of give the rods orally. + Vicki explained it pretty well.

    I give the boluses, in the boluse gun, by going into the front of the mouth and putting the boluse in the back of the throat. It's a calf boluse gun and it's far enough into the throat that I'm past the back molars. I also don't have the nose of the goat any higher than her eyes and the muzzle is stretched out as if she were drinking. I give the boluse on the milk stand so I can stand facing the doe.
    Kaye
     
  18. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    I had a difficult time of it myself :blush I think most of them chewed it, so apparently I wasn't back far enough.. I used a doo-hicky attached to my drench gun with about 20cc H2O per goat. Also, every single one of them dropped in production the next day, one quit eating and is just now getting back up to where she was prior. Has anyone else had this happen? was it chewing the capsules that did it? I've got to get me a bolus gun, but now I'm 'bolus-shy' :sigh
     
  19. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    You've seen the little rods, now, imagine chewing that. Getting in the gums, stuck in the throat...yep, I don't think I'd be eating either. That's why they need to be inside the gel-caps beside getting them in the right stomach.
    No, I've not had them go off production, but if she got some of the rods lodged in her mouth, it could cause her to not want to eat. Get the boluses far enough back to get past the molars. Then they don't have a choice but to swallow. A boluse gun is about the only way to get them far enough.
    Kaye
     
  20. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    Thanks Kaye.. I won't have any to do until Jan, so hopefully I'll find me a bolus gun by then..
    BTW, how do you get those smaller pills to stay in there until you get your goats mouth wrestled open and the gun down their throat??