FKS - Scientific explanation for it, Treatment, Testimonials.. November's here again, and already goats are beginning to freshen. And, of course, owners are already running into their share of kid problems... So I'm sending this FKS info now, in the hope that it will save some of those kids' lives... Sue Reith. FKS... How it happens... (a detailed scientific explanation of the process...) For those that find this stuff interesting, this info on how FKS comes about in goat birthing originated, with some species transfer from canine to caprine to help us understand how it happens in goats as well, from notes taken at a veterinary seminar by Jacob Mosier DVM, a well respected canine veterinarian at Kansas State University College of Veterinary Medicine. His research on the phenomenon concluded that: ???At birth a newborn puppy should have a pH level of 7.4. A puppy can be hung up in the birth canal for too long or the bitch might not remove the sac, causing delayed breathing. We need to be sure it breathes fairly soon because the longer it doesn???t, the more its blood pH level drops, the more acidotic it becomes. During the time it???s still wet (about 20 minutes), the pH drops to about 7.1. If it drops to 6.6 the heart will stop. Despite the delay in the birth process, once revived and breathing FPS pups appear healthy and strong. But then around the 36th to 72nd hour ?? they begin to fade and lose vigor, and the tongue is pale. By the 96th hour, without correction of the pH balance (that's where Baking Soda comes into the picture!), thus reversing the acid condition that has begun, they become flaccid and die.??? Sue Reith. Treating FLOPPY KID SYNDROME - Sue Reith I have found, in treating several FKS kids in this community over the past few years, (all of which had successful outcomes) that I did three things not listed in either FKS posts... I did those 3 things, noted below, because with the first kid, brought to me fairly late in the game, I was not getting good results with treatment until I did so, and found the results so remarkably quick when I did apply them that I used them the rest of the time on the FKS kids. (#1) I gave a dose of Enterotoxemia Antitoxin (NOT the TOXOID!) because while the stomach was not digesting food it was a perfect setup for Enterotoxemia, which is always present in a goat's gut unless it has been properly vaccinated, and which is opportunistic and flourishes the minute the stomach does not digest its contents. That first FKS kid rather quickly indicated problems with abdominal pain, classic for Enterotoxemia. The Entero Antitoxin reversed that. (#2) I gave SQ doses of BoSe (1cc/40lbs) every 2nd day for the first 6 days, and continued weekly for 2 more times after that. (#3) I gave SQ doses of inj. Fortified B-Complex every day for the first 4 days. The FKS kids were so weak when they were brought to me that I had to tube Pedialyte into them, and then began to tube combinations of oral amino acids and electrolytes, dextrose, and bicarbonate of soda (baking soda) into them 3x daily for about 3 days until they could once again take a bottle. I also gave oral doses of Pepto Bismol intermittently throughout the day, and of course Probios, which is essential as well. The improvement was remarkable once I established that formula of treatment. All of those kids I treated are doing fine today. One caveat should be offered here, however. It is possible to have a combination of troubles all at once in a single kid! One of the kids I treated was discovered, as soon as I brought it around from the FKS, to be suffering from Joint Ill at the same time! We then had to start on a whole different regimen of treatment with which we finally got that under control as well. Sue Reith Carmelita Toggs Bainbridge Island WA ------ Joyce Lazzaro forwarded the following report to me for my archives: Species Committee Report - Goat Floppy Kid Syndrome (Metabolic Acidosis without Dehydration in Kids). Report prepared by Drs. Joan Dean Rowe and Nancy E. East, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis. Background: Kids with this clinical syndrome were first reported in spring on 1987, although there are anecdotal reports of herds with this syndrome several years earlier. First recognized in herds on the west coast and in Canada (Tremblay et al), it has more recently been recognized throughout the U.S. With the increase in popularity of Boer and other meat goats, there has been an apparent increase in reports of floppy kid syndrome in state where meat goat numbers are high. Clinical Signs/Case Definition: A "floppy kid syndrome" case defined as a kid who is normal at birth and develops sudden onset of profound muscular weakness a at 3 to 10 day of age, with Acidosis, but no detected abnormalities. Thus the case definition excludes kids with system abnormalities which could otherwise explain the acidosis. Affected kids have no sign of diarrhea, respiratory disease, or other signs referable to a specific organic system. Enterotoxemia can develop as a secondary problem after it has begun. Treatment: Early detection and correction of base deficit as well as good supportive care are critical. Less severe cases are most commonly treated by owners with oral bicarbonate of soda and Peptobismol at the onset of signs. Kids may need to be fed by stomach tube. FLOPPY KID SYNDROME (Some Testimonials follow that were submitted by list members) >>I first experienced FKS three years ago -- I had a little Togg doe kid that was a little more slow than the others -- but it was intermittent, not constant. It was like if we watched her in the pen, she would walk a little drunk-like. So, in order to get a closer look, we would open the pen gate and let the kids run - - and she would be just as lively as the rest. One minute OK, the next minute drunk. This is what I watch for now as it is the early stage for me and the stage that is the easiest to treat. But, as I watched her over the next day or two, she did start to get worse -- wasn't really eating and when she did, she was uncoordinated about it -- tongue hanging out the side of the mouth is very typical. But, because I didn't know what I had, it hit hard and fast for me -- by the time I was remembering what some others had said they had gone through, I had a flat out kid in a box in the house as I sat on the phone asking my friend -- "Describe FKS to me -- I think I may have it." Well, I lost that first kid. But the ones I had after that that first year all survived and I remember at least 10 more. The kind we were dealing with usually hits between 2 to 14 days<< >>It's hard for the kid to digest any milk -- in fact if you pick a FKS kid up and shake it -- you can hear the milk sloshing around in a soft squishy belly. As I said, they also get very uncoordinated and drunk like -- I had kids that first year that if I tried to stand them up they would just flop down like a marionette whose strings have just been dropped. If let it go beyond that, they will go flat out,develop pneumonia and die.<< >>How did I treat? Real simple -- 12 cc Pepto Bismol, or any generic, as long as it contains the pink bismuth, every 5 hours and 1 cc Vit B Complex daily. In addition, I kept them off milk for at least 24 hours and tried to feed electrolytes in small amounts every 4 to 6 hours -- but I didn't push it -- I found it was much better to let them get it out of their system before adding the liquid to the already sloshy belly. Once started on the Pepto Bismol, I found recovery was imminent for me. The following year, freshening 28 does, 19 of them all in one month, I was anticipating disaster. I was ready to don a holster with a pair of Pepto bottles and 12 cc syringes -- my motto for that year was "Have Pepto will travel!!" -- but, fortunately, I had no drastic outbreaks. What I did was sort of watch around the dreaded time period. If a kid looked like they were playing with the nipple, or maybe putting their mouth on and just holding it there or standing dazed or whatever -- I hit them with a dose of Pepto -- and as I had been told, if you caught it early -- sometimes 1 dose of Pepto was enough to bring them around. I had no real problems that year or this past year. Anything that looked suspect was given Pepto right away and progression of FKS was deterred. I also started adding the baking soda once a day to the lambars and, continued with adding Probios powder to the milk daily. I believe doing this around that dreaded 2-week time slot was the best preventative I could have done.<< >>I just put some pepto in a syringe and add enough baking soda so that the mixture will go through the syringe into the kid's mouth. Often this will do if you get it early; otherwise it is necessary to tube in an electrolyte mixture....<< >>20 ml of Pepto ASAP, a shot of vit B, don't feed milk till they start to respond cause their tummies are shut down and they can't digest the food....you can use baking soda, 50% oral Dextrose and Electrolyte solution to keep them alive...<< >>also vitamen B complex, probiotics, and electrolytes-lots of fluids ---but no milk << >>I have a friend who has had that happen with her 2 or 3 day old kids. She immediately takes them off milk and feeds them electrolyte solutions, like pedialite. Once they seem stable, she tries them on milk again.<<