Floppy Kid Syndrome : Floppy Kid Syndrome, by Sue Reith

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by NubianSoaps.com, Nov 23, 2007.

  1. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    FKS - Scientific explanation for it, Treatment, Testimonials..

    November's here again, and already goats are beginning to
    freshen. And, of course, owners are already running into their
    share of kid problems...

    So I'm sending this FKS info now, in the hope that it will save
    some of those kids' lives...

    Sue Reith.

    FKS... How it happens... (a detailed scientific explanation of
    the process...)

    For those that find this stuff interesting, this info on how FKS
    comes about in goat birthing originated, with some species
    transfer from canine to caprine to help us understand how it
    happens in goats as well, from notes taken at a veterinary
    seminar by Jacob Mosier DVM, a well respected canine veterinarian
    at Kansas State University College of Veterinary Medicine. His
    research on the phenomenon concluded that: ???At birth a
    newborn puppy should have a pH level of 7.4. A puppy can be hung
    up in the birth canal for too long or the bitch might not remove
    the sac, causing delayed breathing. We need to be sure it
    breathes fairly soon because the longer it doesn???t, the
    more its blood pH level drops, the more acidotic it becomes.
    During the time it???s still wet (about 20 minutes), the pH
    drops to about 7.1. If it drops to 6.6 the heart will stop.
    Despite the delay in the birth process, once revived and
    breathing FPS pups appear healthy and strong. But then around the
    36th to 72nd hour ?? they begin to fade and lose vigor, and
    the tongue is pale. By the 96th hour, without correction of the
    pH balance (that's where Baking Soda comes into the picture!),
    thus reversing the acid condition that has begun, they become
    flaccid and die.???

    Sue Reith.

    Treating FLOPPY KID SYNDROME - Sue Reith

    I have found, in treating several FKS kids in this community over
    the past
    few years, (all of which had successful outcomes) that I did
    three things
    not listed in either FKS posts... I did those 3 things, noted
    below, because
    with the first kid, brought to me fairly late in the game, I was
    not getting good
    results with treatment until I did so, and found the results so
    remarkably quick
    when I did apply them that I used them the rest of the time on
    the FKS kids.

    (#1) I gave a dose of Enterotoxemia Antitoxin (NOT the TOXOID!)
    because while
    the stomach was not digesting food it was a perfect setup for
    which is always present in a goat's gut unless it has been
    properly vaccinated,
    and which is opportunistic and flourishes the minute the stomach
    does not digest
    its contents. That first FKS kid rather quickly indicated
    problems with abdominal
    pain, classic for Enterotoxemia. The Entero Antitoxin reversed

    (#2) I gave SQ doses of BoSe (1cc/40lbs) every 2nd day for the
    first 6 days, and
    continued weekly for 2 more times after that.

    (#3) I gave SQ doses of inj. Fortified B-Complex every day for
    the first 4 days.

    The FKS kids were so weak when they were brought to me that I had
    to tube
    Pedialyte into them, and then began to tube combinations of oral
    amino acids
    and electrolytes, dextrose, and bicarbonate of soda (baking soda)
    into them
    3x daily for about 3 days until they could once again take a

    I also gave oral doses of Pepto Bismol intermittently throughout
    the day,
    and of course Probios, which is essential as well.

    The improvement was remarkable once I established that formula of
    All of those kids I treated are doing fine today.

    One caveat should be offered here, however. It is possible to
    have a
    combination of troubles all at once in a single kid! One of the
    kids I
    treated was discovered, as soon as I brought it around from the
    FKS, to be
    suffering from Joint Ill at the same time! We then had to start
    on a whole
    different regimen of treatment with which we finally got that
    under control
    as well.

    Sue Reith
    Carmelita Toggs
    Bainbridge Island WA


    Joyce Lazzaro forwarded the following report to me for my

    Species Committee Report - Goat

    Floppy Kid Syndrome (Metabolic Acidosis without Dehydration in
    Report prepared by Drs. Joan Dean Rowe and Nancy E. East, School
    Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis.

    Background: Kids with this clinical syndrome were first reported
    in spring
    on 1987, although there are anecdotal reports of herds with this
    several years earlier. First recognized in herds on the west
    coast and in
    Canada (Tremblay et al), it has more recently been recognized
    the U.S. With the increase in popularity of Boer and other meat
    there has been an apparent increase in reports of floppy kid
    syndrome in
    state where meat goat numbers are high.

    Clinical Signs/Case Definition: A "floppy kid syndrome" case
    defined as a
    kid who is normal at birth and develops sudden onset of profound
    weakness a at 3 to 10 day of age, with Acidosis, but no detected
    Thus the case definition excludes kids with system abnormalities
    which could
    otherwise explain the acidosis. Affected kids have no sign of
    diarrhea, respiratory
    disease, or other signs referable to a specific organic system.
    can develop as a secondary problem after it has begun.

    Treatment: Early detection and correction of base deficit as
    well as good
    supportive care are critical. Less severe cases are most
    commonly treated
    by owners with oral bicarbonate of soda and Peptobismol at the
    onset of signs.
    Kids may need to be fed by stomach tube.


    (Some Testimonials follow that were submitted by list members)

    >>I first experienced FKS three years ago -- I had a little Togg
    doe kid
    that was a little more slow than the others -- but it was
    not constant. It was like if we watched her in the pen, she
    would walk a
    little drunk-like. So, in order to get a closer look, we would
    open the
    pen gate and let the kids run - - and she would be just as lively
    as the
    rest. One minute OK, the next minute drunk. This is what I
    watch for
    now as it is the early stage for me and the stage that is the
    easiest to
    treat. But, as I watched her over the next day or two, she did
    start to get
    worse -- wasn't really eating and when she did, she was
    about it -- tongue hanging out the side of the mouth is very
    But, because I didn't know what I had, it hit hard and fast for
    me -- by
    the time I was remembering what some others had said they had
    through, I had a flat out kid in a box in the house as I sat on
    the phone
    asking my friend -- "Describe FKS to me -- I think I may have
    it." Well, I
    lost that first kid. But the ones I had after that that first
    year all
    survived and I remember at least 10 more. The kind we were
    dealing with
    usually hits between 2 to 14 days<<

    >>It's hard for the kid to digest any milk -- in fact if you pick
    a FKS kid
    up and shake it -- you can hear the milk sloshing around in a
    soft squishy
    belly. As I said, they also get very uncoordinated and drunk
    like -- I had
    kids that first year that if I tried to stand them up they would
    just flop
    down like a marionette whose strings have just been dropped. If
    let it go
    beyond that, they will go flat out,develop pneumonia and die.<<

    >>How did I treat? Real simple -- 12 cc Pepto Bismol, or any
    generic, as
    long as it contains the pink bismuth, every 5 hours and 1 cc Vit
    Complex daily. In addition, I kept them off milk for at least 24
    and tried to feed electrolytes in small amounts every 4 to 6
    hours -- but I
    didn't push it -- I found it was much better to let them get it
    out of their
    system before adding the liquid to the already sloshy belly.
    Once started
    on the Pepto Bismol, I found recovery was imminent for me. The
    year, freshening 28 does, 19 of them all in one month, I was
    disaster. I was ready to don a holster with a pair of Pepto
    bottles and 12
    cc syringes -- my motto for that year was "Have Pepto will
    travel!!" -- but,
    fortunately, I had no drastic outbreaks. What I did was sort of
    around the dreaded time period. If a kid looked like they were
    playing with
    the nipple, or maybe putting their mouth on and just holding it
    there or
    standing dazed or whatever -- I hit them with a dose of Pepto --
    and as I
    had been told, if you caught it early -- sometimes 1 dose of
    Pepto was
    enough to bring them around. I had no real problems that year or
    this past
    year. Anything that looked suspect was given Pepto right away
    progression of FKS was deterred. I also started adding the
    baking soda once
    a day to the lambars and, continued with adding Probios powder to
    the milk
    daily. I believe doing this around that dreaded 2-week time slot
    was the
    best preventative I could have done.<<

    >>I just put some pepto in a syringe and add enough baking soda
    so that the
    mixture will go through the syringe into the kid's mouth. Often
    this will
    do if you get it early; otherwise it is necessary to tube in an

    >>20 ml of Pepto ASAP, a shot of vit B, don't feed milk till they
    start to
    respond cause their tummies are shut down and they can't digest
    food....you can use baking soda, 50% oral Dextrose and
    Electrolyte solution
    to keep them alive...<<

    >>also vitamen B complex, probiotics, and electrolytes-lots of
    fluids ---but no milk <<

    >>I have a friend who has had that happen with her 2 or 3 day old
    She immediately takes them off milk and feeds them electrolyte
    like pedialite. Once they seem stable, she tries them on milk
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2013