Fecal Exam questions

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by baileybunch, Dec 6, 2007.

  1. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    How I wish someone could come and sit with me and walk me through what I am seeing! :sigh We have a new ewe who has not been dewormed. I figured this would be the perfect time to have a look-see to get a real picture of parasite eggs...only thing is I haven't a clue as to what I am looking AT! I have page copies from Sue Reith. I have FiascoFarms pictures, too. Still, I can't seem to get it! I had my daugther write down my questions as I was using the microscope (4/10/40 powers)...ey, what a headache I have! Let me say that I do know how to identify an air bubble! :lol It's so hard for me because what I see on my slide doesn't look like what I see pictured in the books-not much plant matter, only parasite eggs. It's just not the same! I need someone to say, "See that? That is a ___". Then I could get it! :biggrin

    I am pretty sure that I saw HC and possibly Liver Fluke (similar to HC but with one end more pointed) and Cocci. I kept seeing perfectly round with dotted centers, too. And also some oblong shapes with rough edges. :/

    1. When focusing, do I focus on air bubbles or plant matter? Meaning at what focal point will I begin to see parasite eggs?

    2. Which power is most commonly used to fine eggs? 4x. 10x or 40x? or higher? (What powers do you use the most and why?)

    3. Compared to plant matter or air bubbles, how small are the parasite eggs? Are they VERY, very tiny?

    4. Are parasite eggs mostly oblong, egg, oval shaped or are there some that are perfectly round (NOT air bubbles)?

    5. What color are parasite eggs under the microscope? I see green plant matter and then I see darker circular/oval shapes that I believe are eggs.

    6. Can parasite eggs be rough-edged or are they smooth edged?
     
  2. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    QU - 2. when I'm doing a search or scanning a slide, I usually am on about 100 X total magnification.......if I'm really trying to hone in on one egg, for identification , then I might bump up as high as 400x of total mag.....but that doesn't happen very often.
    Qu - 3 Junk, as I call it can be about any size....not to sure how to make a comparison with this.
    QU -4 think you will find that most will be oblong to some degree, cocci will almost look like a chicken egg with the yolk visible inside......cocci will also be much smaller than say HC.......say probably 1/2 the size.
    QU-5 unless you are using a colored filter, I think you will be looking at mostly shades of grey or browns.
    QU -6 you will for the most part seeing very smooth edges at these above magnifications......there is a tapeworm egg that gets a little ragged looking to me.

    Back to QU-1 ......had to give this more thought.....I almost believe that I find more around the fecal depth,,,,,,but not the larger pieces.......think more in line with some of the small bits that you may see out in the open areas on the slide.

    hang in there.....you will get it.......Whim


    Edited to say .........when you can figure out the difference between a liver fluke and an HC ........then you can come teach us.......this is the part of running fecals that I find most frustrating.....
     

  3. ellie

    ellie New Member

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    Although I included quite a bit of information in my book, I'm really not an expert. BUT, I'm pretty sure that fluke eggs require a different kind of test...sedimentation not floatation. So if that's the case, what you're seeing is HC. Check with your vet's office they can tell you if that's so.

    Ellie
     
  4. Gabe

    Gabe New Member

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    Elli is right. The eggs have a little cap on one end which opens up in the solution
    causing them to sink rather than float. I just learned this recently from Karen Christensen ;)
     
  5. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    One last question: When reading a slide, what would be considered a high burden, low burden? How do you count? At what count do you decide to treat an animal?
     
  6. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    I can't tell you what you should do, but only what I do;
    Since I don't have the McMaster slides, I'm working the old fashioned way.
    I look at about a 1 in X 1 in area, because that is what my cover slide is. If within that area I see 2 or 3 cocci or worm eggs, then I say all is OK......If I see 6 of anything, then I don't panic, but will re-check again the next morning. If at that 2 nd test I still see 6 to 8 or more, I will take appropriate action.
    Now this is a rule of thumb with me, but I'm finding that some of my goats can just carry a heavier worm load than the others.......meaning if I see 6 to 8 on so&so, then I look over it, but if I see the same on somebody else, then I have more concern.., I think for the most part it is my younger goats that I worry about the most,,,,,mainly because I haven't had time enough with them to establish what would be normal with each one.
    Your doing good, so don't quit now. This will become a real asset to you and the health of your goats before much longer.
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Lung worms require a sedimentation and a centrifuge test baramin (sp) test.
     
  8. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Hang in there....the more you do the better you get at it. Uhhh...kinda' like AI.??

    Keep in mind that you are looking at EGGS. Think chicken egg, hard shell on outside, stuff on the inside. Parsite eggs are exactly the same way. The ones you are looking for will have a definate darker smoother outer shell with many round smaller ones inside.(Note-when you start looking for other parasites...like giardia,tapes, ect...then you get into other shapes).

    According to the extended conversations with Sue over the fluke eggs...
    There is another test...can't think right now...Vicki knows!! starts with a B?..that detects lungworm & the above fluke.

    I just HATE Sr. Moments! :mad
    Kaye
     
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Baermann test is correct spelling of the test for lung worms.
     
  10. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :yeahthat
    I tried every spelling I could think of googling and couldn't get it. And of course I don't have it wrote down anywhere. :really
    Kaye
     
  11. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Susie, The biggest thing is that once you get the hang of this thing, it will become like riding a bicycle.....you will no longer have to guess about whether your wormers are working, or how often that you will need to use them. Because I don't use cocci prevention, but use cocci treatment as needed, the micro helps me keep track of cocci problems that may occur in my younger animals. Just knowing what your dealing with, and applying the the proper course of action will improve your overall herd health by leaps and bounds.
    This may sound like a brag, but my brother stopped in last week to check on me and my goats, and his face lit up like a light bulb when he saw how good my goats looked. The hair is smooth and shiny. The colors and patterns are very distinct. Eyes are clear and bright . Tails a wagging ,and you can tell that my goats just feel good by how much they horse play.
    Now with all that said....I've only had 2 general wormings in 07 .....After the doe's kidded, and before they were bred back this fall. Between that , I had to do a repeat tape worming on 2 younger goats, and also did a cocci treatment on 2 doelings. Now without the micro. I would have probably wormed more than that, helping to build up resistant worms for sure. Also think that I would probably go to cocci prevention also, instead of just treating the ones that need it.
    Kinda like goat milk, the micro isn't a cure all, but the benefits that will come from using both are substantial.