FAMACHA question

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Rose, May 27, 2008.

  1. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    I am learning to use the FAMACHA eye chart to check for anemia. I have never seen the goats' eyelids as deep pink as the farthest to the left part of the chart. Has anyone on the board seen that?

    I dewormed the goats 16 days ago. All but one are now at level three. One was level one this morning, and I dewormed her with a different wormer this morning.

    How quickly should I expect the eyelids to pink up?

    Are there other factors that can affect the level of anemia / eye lid color?
     
  2. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    In my opinion you also need to do fecal checks because by the time your goats get to the anemia on the chart you really have problems. Will take building them back up with vitamins etc besides the worming. And yes believe there are other things that can cause anemia (lack of iron for one) but can remember what all with goats will have to research that again
     

  3. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    I agree with Sondra. Famancha is too loosy goosy for me here in the southeast. Even though running fecals is not an exact measurement, it appears to give me less of those hit and miss results.

    I've said this many times on here....Buy you a microscope, and learn to run your own fecals. Sell a goat, or skip buying one to get you a micro. I promise you that it will be the best investment that you can make in the overall, and long term health of your herd. Microscopes are cheaper than vet bills.

    Whim
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Hey I just have a kids microscope and it works OK not the best but ok
     
  5. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    I have the microscope that my mom gave me mumble years ago when I was in high school. I've started printing out the worm egg pics that Sue Reith emailed me. I spoke to our Missouri vet this morning about helping me the first time to do the fecal test myself.

    We did run fecals twice in Texas before we came up here. No significant eggs, according to the vet. So, it hasn't been a month since a good fecal test.

    That's why I'm asking about the dark pink end of the chart. Has anybody seen an eyelid that color???

    How quickly should I expect a return of darker pink?

    Should I *not* depend on the FAMACHA test at all?
     
  6. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    If you have a micro.....and a little bit of knowledge of how to use it, then your over 1/2 way there.

    ....and for sure, if I had a micro....then famancha would be used as a last resort.

    I suggest you learn to do both...then you can get a better feel of how famancha works, and a better idea of what you can look for when they do get wormy.

    Whim
     
  7. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    My girls are dark red. I do look at eyelids but honestly it's when diagnosing a doe who is not up to par. Not worms persay.

    Famacha is a tool like fecaling is, but you have to also understand than cool weather worms cause no anemia, only unthrifty scruffy goats, and hot weather blood suck worms by the time you are into the paler catagories you have a life threatening, milk production robbing condition. Then it's all the normal...her immunity needs boosting bo-se and b vitmains. Good hay, she needs to stay cool, and anemic doe can't handle the heat, can't be bred, doesn't browze enough or drink enough to really milk very well. Increasing the iron in her diet with tonics etc, up to the point that you have to know it's binding the calcium and copper she needs if you use to much. It's also acidic in the rumen so she ruminants less when getting iron tonics, and it's also made with liver. Nobody knows if iron shots really work, no tests have been done.

    So as quickly as all this happened to her, it takes months to rehabilitate her, build her blood levels back up, and if she has a replapse of worms in 21 days as larve matures and start sucking blood, she won't live through it.

    So 6 to 8 weeks. Vicki
     
  8. Ravens Haven

    Ravens Haven New Member

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    I agree I personally do not use Famancha for all the reasons listed.

    Autumn
     
  9. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    I'm right there with Vicki. Yes, my does...except one (and she's proven to be less resistant to parasites)...have the red lower eyelids. In fact, I grabbed one this past weekend because I saw red...PANIC-pink eye- Nope, just the red eyelids.

    And I also don't use it as suggested. I depend more on fecals before they get to the anemia stage listed on the chart.
    Kaye
     
  10. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    Thanks, Vicki, that's the complete answer I was looking for. I probably drive folks nuts because I *do* want the explanation. :/

    I copper bolused her about three weeks ago. I'll get her on a tonic today. She's not interested in minerals, but I may mix some with her feed and snacks so that I'm sure she gets the iron.

    She's an aged doe, and I think she has multiple issues, but we'll see what we can do.

    Thanks again.
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Rose than you are one of the few that will enjoy my posts, I do tend to go on and on :) Vicki
     
  12. Dover Farms

    Dover Farms New Member

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    Vicki, I like your long posts...they are very informational and you explain everything so it all makes sense. :)

    I am also learning that we really need to get a microscope!

    I have a quick question about fecals(sorry! not trying to hijack the thread). How often do you need to do them?
     
  13. Ashley

    Ashley Active Member

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    Well now I'm confused, because I don't think any of my goats have red eyelids like that. I've only seen the famacha cards online, so I just figured their was color varience with the photograph and my computer screen, since my fecals are good. I have one goat that always seems to have the palest lids, since I got her over a year ago. I did a fecal recently and she had one egg? She seems healthy, has the nicest coat of all of (fine and shiny), loves to eat, lots of energy and has been milking well for 16 months?? I have several with fairly pale, compared to red, eyelids. None of them have red lids actually. Could this be a mineral deficiency? I just recently (like 2 or 3 months ago) got them on a better mineral. It's a horse mineral with 3500 ppm copper and very little iron (it's in the ingredient list, but the mineral is yellow in color, not red).

    ETA, even the little baby toggenburg, at 2 weeks old doesn't have anywhere near red eyelids. She huge, healthy and growing very fast.
     
  14. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    This time of year it's the first of every month. I pick up poop from someone mid way through the pecking order. In the kid pen I will do two kids the younger and one of the older kids. The bucks I just do one of the now 3 in the pen. If a doe is new they get done every month also.

    Everyone needs to get their own chart because if you do take it out and put it up next to your goats eyes, it is not that much difference in the coloring of the top few pictures.

    It's a tool, like CMT, what is perfectly normal at your farm is an emergency here and vice versa. Vicki
     
  15. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    """" How often do you need to do them?"""''

    This is just here at my place....so your situation may be different.

    My older goats seem to get wormy less often, so about once a month is good enough to keep me informed on them here.
    Now, it's those younger goats that I watch much closer, and you should too. I'm mostly talking about goats that are 18 months old or less, and for sure those kids that were born this last spring.
    With these ND's, there appears to be a more critical period between weaning age and about 6 months old that has to be watched closer than once a month. And to be honest about it, it is the cocci that seems to bloom the worse during this time frame. Since I don't use cocci prevention, and only treat for cocci when it occurs, it pays for me to check the fecals on my kids a little more often.....maybe even once week if I have time.

    That's the beauty of having a micro on hand......you can run a fecal at any time you feel the urge to do so.

    Develop you system that works for you, and your herd will be the better for it.

    Whim
     
  16. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Whim how do you kow when a mini is stunted from cocci? LOL!!! TEASING!! Vicki
     
  17. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    :rofl :rofl :rofl
     
  18. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    :rofl I know when a "mini" is stunted enough, when they measure short enough to be registered as Dwarfs. I'm gonna have to get Barb V or Ken F to have a long talk with you about the difference between mini's and dwarfs someday.

    ;) ;) ;) Whim