Excenel and Baytril

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by homeacremom, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. homeacremom

    homeacremom New Member

    743
    0
    0
    Can anyone, Kaye!, explain how these drugs work and which tissues it is effective in?
    Excenel is the drug the vet would like to give the doe who freshened with lumps in her udder. Ive been told this is the drug of choice for mastitis. While these lumps are technically "mastitis" they are not causing illness, changes in the milk or production in the affected side, etc. I asked if the excenel will penetrate these lumps he did not know what to say. Not trying to disregard his education or experience...but don't want to start spending money or adding useless antibiotics to this situation.
    So far I know of three other farms in Middle TN with similar stuff going on. I'm sure it has something to do with a very hard summer when most farms struggled to keep their stock fed and in good condition and then a wet, relatively warm winter. Onefarm is where my doe came from. The other two have shared stock. What I know is that there was also a negative staph plus other "things" that cultured sensitive to Baytril. Baytril has apparently cleared up lumps in some stock if it was used immediately. These were does who came down with lumps after freshening and secondary to the original cases... Also wondering what is the milk withdrawal on Baytril? I've had differing recommendations.
    From what y'all know are either or both of these drugs appropriate treatment?
     
  2. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

    1,837
    0
    0
    Baytril will penetrate the udder. It's usually used as a last ditch effort. It has been approved for use in beef cattle but not dairy cattle...milk withdrawal hasn't been established. So use with the advice, of not selling the milk this lactation.
    Baytril is used along with infusions of Pirsue.(Pirsue The last withdrawal I was told was like 2-3 months.

    Excenel is iffy. With Naxcel being better in this circumstance. You can also use along with Excenel/Naxcel injections:

    SPECTRAMAST® DC Ceftiofur Hydrochloride Sterile Suspension is indicated for the treatment of subclinical mastitis in dairy cattle at the time of dry off associated with Staphylococcus aureus, Streptococcus dysgalactiae, and Streptococcus uberis. SPECTRAMAST® DC Ceftiofur Hydrochloride Sterile Suspension has been proven effective against Staphylococcus aureus, Streptococcus dysgalactiae, and Streptococcus uberis.

    Is this the doe that has had this problem for over a year? used immediately is the key words here.
    If it is...this does system has walled off the bacteria. A very difficult case to treat...at best.
    Kaye
     

  3. homeacremom

    homeacremom New Member

    743
    0
    0
    No, not over a year. The lumps have been there maybe two months now. Two year old, first freshening. First the udder simply felt "rough". I passed it off as development. It was maybe a week prekidding that the lumps that remain were anything unusual. Still thought it was within normal for a FF. The day she kidded things really changed and the udder was visibly lumpy on one side.The milk coming in masked how large they were, but there were no other symptoms. Now one month post-kidding; the general "roughness" is gone and only these lumps in one side remain.

    If Baytril is given can the milk still be used for the kids? I was told 2.3 cc per 100 1x a day for 5 days. Is this dosage correct in your opinion?
    Can the milk be used while doing the Pirsue? I'd guess not...
     
  4. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

    442
    0
    0
    Ceftiofur (naxcel, excede, exenel, soln for injection (differing strengths) and spectramast IM infusion) is a third generation cephalosporin. Cephalosporins are beta lactam antiobioics, beta lactam drugs kill bacteria by interfering with an enzyme (beta lactam) the bacteria needs to build its cell wall. Penicilllins (PCN) and ampicillin are in the same class because they work the same way.
    You have probably taken cephalosporin antiobiotics at some point, there are dozens of them that are or have been used in human medicine, many start with a cef or Kef like Keflin, Keflex, Cefazolin, Ceftin, etc. Theres about a 15% cross allergic cross sensitivity to PCN, 15 % of people allergic to PCN will also react to cephalosporins.

    Third generation means its a more complex molecule than the very first drugs of the cephaplosporin class, as each generation indicates a new subclass with increased complexity and usually increased broad spectrum of activity. Frst generations awere mainly active agaisnt gram psoitive bacteria. As the generation increases the gram negative activity increases too. The higher the generation ( I think there's a few 4th gens out there now in human medicine, and perhaps in vet medicine too; one other rule of thumb is the higher the generation the more darn expensive it is) the less likely that theres much resistance to it. Usually the less often it has to be given too, IIRC for people most third gens are only twice a day dosing, a few once a day. Longer duration of action. So third gen is a good thing. I believe ceftiofur is a vet medicine only and theres no direct equivalent in human medicine at this time, not sure on that one. On eo fthe biggest mistakes in using cephalosporins is not using them LONG enough. 5 days usually doesnt cut it, you usually need at least 8 or IMHO 10 days to really kill enough of the bacteria to effect a cure. Use them less long and you usually end up with a relapse with now resistant bacteria and more of a problem then you started with.

    Baytril is a totally different kind of antibiotic than the beta lactams. Its enrofloxacin, in the Floxin class. If youve ever taken Cipro, Avelox, Tequin or Levaquin youve taken one of the floxins. The kill bacteria by blocking an enzyme needed to reproduce bacterial DNA. Floxins are fairly new in vet medicine, an dmy gues sis that theres a good likelyhood most mastitis strains in anmals that havent been treated with floxins before would probably be susceptible to it.

    Floxins work well with other antibiotics, Amoxicillin is a good choice to add to it. The have additive effects that way and often two antiotics will kill more than just one, and be less likely to leave resistant organisms to regrow. Again, timing matters IMHO_ you may hear 5 days. I personally would double that. I'd question a vet if the longer time has any downside besides needing to use more drug.

    Speakign of downsides, all antibiotics have some, besides the possibility of allergic reaction. Its important to keep fluid intake up to reduce the small chance of kidney problems. Floxins are well known to cause some connective tissue problems, especially tedonitis and tendon rupture. restricting movement while using floxins might help avoid that, so keeping an animal in a small paddock and not out running around might be a good choice to avoid straining and possibly damaging tendons or joints.

    If it were me, I'd try either one, but I'd lean to the floxin with maybe ampicillen as a second drug during the treatment period. Some research shows that genistin ( a phytochemical found in soybeans) or albendazole can decrease teh amt of the floxin found in milk. So worming with albendazole or feeding soy feeds may decrease the effectiveness of the treatment.

    Considering the cost of both these antibiotics, I'd be tempted to see if anyone near you can run a sensitivity at a reasonable cost before treating or at least before using one of them. You juts might end up finding that the organism is susceptable to a much less costly drug, and save quite a bit. Even if you do need to use one of them you might find out which one is the best bet and still save money in the long run.

    For personal use, I'd figure a 30 day withdrawal period on the ceftiofur, and probably the same on the floxin, even though no withdrawal periods are established from reading soem of the pharmokinetic studies and IM infusion study reports, that looks like a good bet. If I was selling it, I'd probably go much longer, or even the whole lactation as earlier suggested, just to be on the safe side. There are test kits than can detect residue in milk. I havent looked it up yet to see if they detect either of these drugs. If they do, it might be one way to determine it more scientifically.

    HTH! it was kinda interesting researching it! Ive given floxins to people (including myself, and I did once have a tendon rupture while taking cipro, so fidn that a serious side effect I can identify with!) for many years, but never really looked it up in animals, so it was neat to read about.
     
  5. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

    442
    0
    0
    I wouldnt use baytril milk in kids. The younger the animal the greater the possibility of tendon, joint or other connective tissue damage. It might not be enough of a dose, but I wouldnt want to take a chance. I'd also wonder if the milk would kill off their rumen bacteria and leave them suscpetable to endotoxemia, bloat or other problems. Because of that, I'd probably not want to feed any baby ruminant milk that might have a lot of residue in it. Probalby safe a after about 2 weeks from the last dose or even earlier. Maybe even not a big issue at all, but without some science to say its safe, I'd probably err on the side of caution. This is when one of those antibiotic residue kits might pay for itself.

    My gut take only, and how i would look at it if it were me. YMMV. Would love to hear anything more definitive on it if anyone knows.
     
  6. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

    2,730
    0
    0
    My 6 year old doe had a lump in half of her udder shortly after freshening. Her milk was hard to filter, though it looked normal and her Dr. Naylor test turned green. She didn't have a fever and acted normal. I treated her with Excenel, Today, Lysigin and peppermint oil. Her milk is now easy to filter, the lump is down and her test normal. Her buckling is nursing her with no ill effects from her treatment. Kathie
     
  7. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

    1,837
    0
    0
    Pirsue= milk is withheld for only 36 hours after last treatment.

    That withdrawal was for Baytril...not the Pirsue as it sounded.

    The doses that I have for Baytril 100 is:
    2cc/100# for 3-5 days.
    Kaye