Ever seen this and what might cause it??

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by ozark_jewels, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels New Member

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    Cream Puff(Boer/Lamancha 3 year old), kidded two days ago. She was bred to my Boer buck, same one as last year. Last year she had very nice triplets, the two doelings which I kept and are now bred, and a buckling.
    The labour started normally and progressed just fine. Two large feet presented themselves and next a nose. I was there to see it all and be sure it went well as it was about 15* in the barn that day. The kid was pushed out up to its ribcage when I noticed something odd coming out beside its chest. It looked like and was....intestines. Next push produced the entire kid. It was a beautiful big doeling with a hole in its side. Its intestines and other guts were spilling out the side. It wasn't a tear, it was simply an area that had never formed. Around one side of it was a little bit hairless, but other than that the edges were smooth and normal looking skin with hair. The slit ran from just under the ribs, down at a slant and right into her little udder area. I stretched her out to see what she looked like and she seemed normal except for that slit and the area around where her guts had slipped between her stomach wall and her hide, which was slightly puffy. She was very much alive and ready to face the world. :( I put her down immediately.
    Cream Puff proceeded to produce another beautiful large doeling who is totally normal. Momma and baby are doing great.
    Any clues as to what caused the first kids problem??
     
  2. Cotton Eyed Does

    Cotton Eyed Does New Member

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    Do you think the other kid could have pawed her just right when flipping around inside Mama and tore her abdomen?
     

  3. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels New Member

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    No, it had definately grown that way, not been torn.
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    This is a defect, and it's on that site Bernice would put up each year. It has to be over at DGP. But it is one of the photos and I honestly don't remember if it is genetic or a toxin. Doreen may also remember we found her Shizim on it also.

    In children they simply put the intestines back in and stitch them up, with it on her side and not her umbilical I would actually have been tempted to give it a dry being careful not twist anything going back in...and I have my new staple gun for doing staples on the outside skin...with some matress sutures to hold the inside together even though you would have had to pull it from the sides. Would not have done it had it been an area that is prone to herniate, like the belly.

    Always enjoying your posts Emily! Vicki
     
  5. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels New Member

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    I actually thought about trying to do as you described, Vicki. But I was concerned with the area of her udder, the tear ran right into it....thinking maybe that would cause stress on the area if/when she ever kidded. I weighed the options I'd have if she made it......I wouldn't feel good about selling her at least until she had successfully kidded and raised kids, it wasn't worth it just for a meat animal, and with all the stuff I have going on......I just decided to put her down instead. I can barely handle all the stuff we have going on right now, I just didn't think I could handle her as well. It was heartbreaking though, especially as her kids from last year are awsome. Thanks for the insight on this. It was not what I expect from a goat going into labour and it really had me on pins and needles to see what the second kid was going to look like when it came out!
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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  7. Tim Pruitt

    Tim Pruitt New Member

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    Did you give any drugs or wormer during pregnancy?
     
  8. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature New Member

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    Very interesting stuff.
     
  9. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels New Member

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    No, no drugs or wormer during pregnancy. Just the usual pre-breeding worming and Bose about two weeks before she was bred, then Bose and CDT about four weeks before she was due.
     
  10. Ravens Haven

    Ravens Haven New Member

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    My 14 year old chihuahua then she was 13, had her last litter of pups and one of them had this same thing. and it too was still alive and ready to fight. I don't have a clue as to what causes it though..
     
  11. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels New Member

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    Interesting read, Vicki.
     
  12. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Like Vicki said...it's a birth defect.
    I've seen it in a puppy delivered via c-section, baby goat born here, have been on calls for calves and foals born this way. Yes, we also put them down because-explained to me (who always asked questions) If the calves and foals had not contaminated the intestines, There's a complication of 1. anesthesia at that age 2. It's a very long surgery 3. Every edge of the *tear*(which actually isn't a tear) must be scraped to *freshen* the edges in at least 3 layers. Abdominal wall, muscles, and outer skin. 4. Price of surgery, Not to mention the possibility of infection, peritonitis,ect...

    You did the best thing by putting it down.
    Kaye
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Kind of shocking that it is 1 in every 2000 briths in humans! Did anyone get far enough in the article to see if it was genetic or toxin? Vicki
     
  14. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I read some other articles and from them I gather that no one knows and there a 4 different speculations as to what really happens but it is in the first formations in most cases. One of the speculative causes is that the mother took too many asprins in early stages of pg. Now we know that is not the case in animals
     
  15. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Now, I know why Vicki and I don't live closer together! I can just see it now, "Vicki, I got a kid with weird defect...we're gonna' try and fix it!"
    Just to see if we can git er' done! :lol
    Kaye
     
  16. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Kaye my favorite story : I took a long needed vacation back to San Diego in Feburary (I start kidding in March) one year, no kids no husband, just to go visit home. I left instructions with my husband that nobody was to call me there, do not give out the phone number unless it was life or death, and only of my goats not others. A gal called and called, he kept telling her "I am sorry, she won't be home until Sunday night". About 8 messages at least from this gal were ready for me Monday morning, and sure enough before I could even call her back, she called again. I had to go about 30 minutes to her farm to help her with a severely ill doeling that was born while I was gone. So at least 6 days old by then.

    I get to her farm to find a kid that is being tubed, she has half a top jaw, no lower jaw, a dropping eye, a dropping ear, like half her face was not developed all the way. "I knew you could fix her, I knew you would know what to do". I looked at her in udder disbelief and asked her if she thought I knew how to do plastic surgery or what?!!! She never spoke to me again :) I also didn't get any diesel money :) LOL!!!! Vicki
     
  17. Karen Bailey

    Karen Bailey New Member

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    Emily,
    Thanks for sharing this. I'd much rather read about something like this and have the time to think about what I'd do in that situation before I'm actually in that situation myself. So many things *might* happen during kidding. I'm so thankful that through forums like this we can all be prepared for much much more than just our own individual experiences.
     
  18. BlueHeronFarm

    BlueHeronFarm New Member

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    I'm with Karen-- thanks for sharing, Emily. Sorry it happened to you, but it sounds like you handled it amazingly well.
     
  19. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    I bet you didn't get a bologna sandwich either. :rofl

    Sara
     
  20. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I've seen a kid born with it's intestines on the outside. It was at my friend's place. She, also, put it down immediately. I think it was just one of those defects that is a fluke of nature. That kid's siblings were normal and no other kids looking like that were born to any of her many does that year.