Down wether HELP!!

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by DostThouHaveMilk, Nov 16, 2007.

  1. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    If it isn't one thing, it's another.
    Stats- Wether born mid-April. Dam raised (singleton- 5/8 Boer, 3/8 dairy), horned, CD/T series done. Wormed once or twice so far (with Cydectin). 70 pounds. Temp 103 yesterday, 103 today.
    He has been "off" for about two weeks or so now. I have been waiting for him to go down. He had been dragging his hind toes slightly and stumbling some. My first thought was deer worm and that is still one of my thoughts. My other concern is I did throw him awhile ago and may have strained something, but it wasn't hard and that was over a month ago.
    I went down yesterday to feed. Thought he had hung himself in the fence. He is stuck on a regular basis in the hay feeder (cattle panel wrapped around a haybale) and has been beat on by the horned brats. He wasn't. Just laying with his head twisted around against the fence. Tried to get him up. He stumbled along and finally managed to get to his feet. I fed the goats and he was tumbled during them running into the feed area. I loaded him up and took him to the cow barn (warmer, drier, it's easier to doctor them there). He was drooling and having what appears to be neurological issues. I gave him 1.5 cc of Excenel and .7cc of Banamine before I went to work.
    This morning dad mentioned he was walking around with his body one direction and his head the other. He was crammed in the corner. He had eaten his hay, but had not drunk any water since I put it in around 2PM yesterday. He was gritting his teeth, his tongue was sticking out the side of his mouth and he leaning against the wall. No rasping in his lungs, but he looked just like Wisteria and Evangline, both of whom I lost last Fall to pnuemonia. They were dead shortly after I found them down. Within 12 hours. This has been 24 hours since I found him down.
    Temp was 103 again. I gave him another 1.5cc of Excenel, .7 Banamine, 1.75cc of BoSe, and 1.6cc of Thiamine (200 mg/mL).
    Dad has been instructed to hit him again with the Thiamine at 4PM and then at 8PM. I should be back from work for the midnight dose.
    I'm worried I'm treating him for the wrong thing though. I am headed down to put some lactated ringers solution into him and probably hit him with Ivermect Plus since he hasn't been wormed in about 4-5 months probably. Eyelids look good.
    Any thoughts? Opinions? Clarifications needed?
    Last time I tried to get Nuflor from the vet's office I couldn't. I have the Excenel and some Tylan, as well as LA. Since I started the Excenel thinking it might be pnumeonia he will get another dose tomorrow.
     
  2. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    Re: Down wether

    I just gave him .7ccs of Ivermect Plus sub-Q, .34ccs of Dex-SP sub-Q and 70ccs of Lactated Ringers solution.
    He is still drooling, still has his tongue stuck out the side of his mouth. He isn't gritting his teeth as much. He is unable to swallow and not interested in eating nor drinking. He has been trmebling since I brought him up. He did switch sides and turn around completely from the time it took me to clean syringes and put everything away after I had given him the lactated.
    He has been sitting with his head up some, but for the most part is tucking it under the milk stand of curling it up on his side.
    The temperature plummeted the past few days and we have had snow flakes and cold rain.
    I'll be gone for about 5-8 hours. I am already running an hour and a half behind schedule and this is the busiest Friday of the season for my boss....
     

  3. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Re: Down wether

    Sounds like you've popped him with about everything that you've got, and I doubt that you've got anything to loose at this point with that approach.
    I'm hoping Vicki or someone will step in here pretty quick.
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    What is his weight not sure the amount of thiamin you gave is enough if he has polio
     
  5. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    He is 70 pounds or 32 kilos (70/2.2). So 320 mg is the dosage (10mg/kg). 320mg/200 (mg/mL) ~ 1.6 mL. Isn't this correct?
     
  6. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Well....here goes:
    1. Menegeal worm... .7 of Ivermectin is NOT ENOUGH. Give him at least 5cc SQ. Dexamethasone at 1cc/50#'s Twice a day for 2 days then drop it to once a day (you can go 1cc/20#'s for severe neuro signs) IM, not SQ. He needs the Dexamethasone anyway for the neuro signs he's showing(be it injury or deer worm). Banamine at 1cc/100#'s IM every 12 hrs. for 1 days then drop it to once a day up to 4 more days. I just brought a 4yr. old 260# buck from falling down if he had to do anything but walk straight, to up and breeding does! Using this method. Only he got 12cc of Ivermectin.

    2. Listo-http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=81.0

    The thiamine dose for polio is: 4.5cc/100#s. *with polio after the 1st correct dose of B1, you will notice some improvement.

    Dexamethasone and Banamine are both inflammation reducers and yea, I know your not SUPPOSE to use them together, but in this case....
    Kaye
     
  7. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    5cc of Ivermect Plus?
    My Dex is twice the strength of most so would it be 1cc/100 pounds? So .7ccs of that instead of the .35ccs I was giving.

    After reading the Listeriosis thread he is showing most of those except for the fever aspect. His temperature has remained around 103. Is Gentmicin a vet scrpit?

    I talked to Vicki on the phone and nothing really made sense..which is what I am seeing. lol
    Nothing makes sense.
    He's been chewing his tongue all day.
    I stole some cud from JayJay and gave him that. When I put hay in front of him he attempted to eat but has no control over his tongue. He will swallow water if I offer it to him in a bottle.
    I am giving him sub-Q fluids.

    With the Thiamine my bottle is a 200mg/mL. I though that meant the dosage should be halved? We were going to up his Thiamine shot to 2ccs. He's had 1.6ccs three times today so far starting at noon.

    Thanks!
     
  8. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Is it 2mg or 4mg? The doses I gave you are for 2mg/ml.
    Mine is 500mg/ml. I think most Rx Thiamine is 200mg/ml. The dose I gave you is for 200mg/ml. There's 100mg/ml in FORTIFIED B COMPLEX..reason for the different doses.

    The 100mg/ml is.

    If you talked to Vicki...go by what she says. She's better at diagnosis without seeing the animal than I am.
    And it's impolite to take over a diagnosis.
    Kay
     
  9. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    My Dex is the 4mg, which I discovered while treating the deer worm doe..lol On the second day after I had given her a heavy dose. I have Dexamethasone-SP.

    Yes, 200. Okay, I will definitely up the dose then. I wasn't sure how much and forgot to ask Vicki.
    Vicki felt it was possibly an injury from another goat. In part due to the lack of fever.
    I will continue fluids with him and I am going to up his Thiamine and also dose him with Penn since that is what I have on hand. Hopefully, that way, if it is simply an abnormal showing of Listeriosis maybe it will catch it.
    I don't expect him to survive and haven't since I found him down.
    I can't sit by and do nothing though, so I will keep busy and hope for the best.

    Thanks!
     
  10. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Good thing you caught it. Please make a note of this when you mention your dex so we know it's 4mg/ml instead of the 2mg/ml.
    :D Proud you're reading lables and mg/ml!!
    Kaye
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    what abt rabies??? could this be a possibility??
     
  12. DostThouHaveMilk

    DostThouHaveMilk New Member

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    Rabies is fairly unlikely in this area. We keep a close eye on that due to the dairy cow herd.
    He is getting worse, though it is no surprise. He has started rattling and no longer holds his head up. It is now tucked to his side. He is fighting the shots which is better than yesterday. I went ahead and got six hours of sleep and then headed back down an hour ago. His tongue is still out and he is drooling up a storm.
     
  13. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature New Member

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    Roseanna, he sounds just like the Boer doeling I lost. The one I brought into the kitchen that died at about 6 months old. She was round bellied, pushing herself against the couch or or the wall to stand, seemed neurologically impaired. Her tongued was to the side of her mouth, and drooling. She began seizing and seizing. I deflated her rumen with 18G for palitive treatment to relieve pain. She died a horrible death in the kitchen and i had to wait til hubby came home to carry her out as she was a big goat.

    I have a pic that I can post of her tongue but it is photobucket, katie or someone can you fix this pic:

    [​IMG]

    Note tongue out. She kept going to the one side like that around and around.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. H. B. Acres

    H. B. Acres New Member

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    Re: Down wether HELP!! Botulism Maybe?

    I had a thought while reading your info.... in 1994 we had a goat get Botulism and another get Listeriosis at the same time... from flood debris in our case. Anyway... both were very similar except the listeriosis goat had a temp of 106 and the botulism goat had a normal temp and drooled constantly. Mostly the botulism goat got supportive care in the form of a rumenostomy as he was unable to chew cud for 6 months and was unable to eat at all by mouth for probably 3 months. It was an ordeal but we pulled them both thru. So..... I was thinking that botulism might be a thought on your goat. Now since then I have heard of a horse farm that gets botulism every once in awhile in the winter... horses don't seem to pull thru botulism very well (actually goats don't either.. I don't really know why Trapper survived it).... anyway they get it from eating hay off the ground around the feeders where it has gotten wet and such. Anyway, just a thought... there is a page on my website concerning Trapper and his botulism if you are interested.. it is not in great detail though.
    Good luck with your little boy, it sounds like you are covering all your bases.
    Robin Kenney
    http://www.hbacres.geo.com
     
  15. H. B. Acres

    H. B. Acres New Member

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