Dosage for Di-Methox 12.5 % Solution for water and drenching

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by tjgoatgirl, May 22, 2008.

  1. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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    Hi.........I didn't know if this qualified as a new topic or where I originally put it under someone else's topic about Sulmet? I thought I'd post it as a new topic too since it's really not about Sulmet. ..........What dosage DOES everyone use for Albon? actually Di-Methox Solution 12.5?

    I just got some yesterday.........used the dosage on Fiaso Farm website and now I see a big discussion on this forum about the dosages being 3 X too low on Fias Co Farm?

    I have a little doe confimed case of "significant" in fecal......... she's been here for one week tomorrow.....poop was good when she got here, but she was just treated by her old owner w/ Di-methox powder and then Corid.

    Now she's loose again, and my vet said "significant" coccidia.....probably from my barn/pasture?

    Anyway, last year the vet gave me Albon (SulfadIimethoxine) but this year, believe it or not, this clinic SWEARS they haven't carried the clear liquid-y version for YEARS, and gave me the suspension liquid (yellow and sticky) for dogs and cats.

    I went around them and got the generic of Albon from another vet, but just decided to add it to water (for 14 other goats) as well well as dose orally.

    Looking for the water dosage, I now see there is much debate about dosage in general on the 12.5%.

    HELP!!!! PLEASE!!!!!
    It's Di-Methox Solution 12.5 .......not labeled for goats
    I have a 10 lb doeling (8 weeks old) and yesterday I gave her 2ml, and was planning on only giving 1 today.......(according to Fiasco Farm site)

    ******I understand what Vicki was saying about 40% vs. 12.5%, but I can't believe I'm going to give like 6 mls to this little baby? Vicki...........if you're out there can you confirm that I understood your past post correctly?

    And if anyone has also dosed in the water too for the others..........what dosage do you use? .....it's like 1.56 per gallon for cows.....and like 2 oz per gallon for chickens?

    Corid was only 1 oz for 5 gallons...............so am I really going to put 10 oz. or 300 cc's into my 5 gallon water bucket? THAT IS HUGE! I am just so afraid of overdosing them or something.

    Also, I don't know WHAT the dr. gave me last year which was clear and labeled Albon?? but the dosages were way smaller.......to be exact 2.7 cc's drenched for 5 days to a 9 lb. doeling.

    I am so frustrated..........I try to do everything right, and learn everything, but there's so much conflicting info. out there, and even the vet is a far bet from always right.........they're not much interested in goats I don't think.

    Just got done w/ Soremouth and now it's time for Coccidiosis! Calgon.....take me away~!!!!!!!! :nooo :? :nooo
     
  2. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

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    https://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,63.0.html

    thats the dose I have used in the past and beginning of this year with no problem.

    Albon is a brand name, so is Di-Methox. So is Sulmet. The generic drug name is sulfadimethoxine. Albon comes in 3 different concentrations that I know of- 5, 12.5 and 40%. Sulmet is 12.5 % and Di_Methox is 40%. Then theres generics manufactured at each concentration, some with differing brand names. I think thats what causes some confusion.

    You'd want to give all 12.5 % solutions of the sulfadimethoxine at the doses in the link above. You'll use the 40% differently of course, since its more than 3 times as concentrated.

    If your vet gave you Albon 40% last year, but 12.5 % this year, that could explain the difference. Without knowing for sure the concentration, its hard to tell. If they gave you the dog and cat suspension, it might be the 5% version. I think that one is flavored, and it might be why its sticky. I'd call back the clinic and ask them to check the bottle and give you the concentration off it to make sure.

    Without knowing the concentration of the medicine, its hard to tell if your giving the right dose. And why you used it differently last year. You may have had a differing concentration or been using different dosages. I'm not sure what else your question really is, but if your just checking to see if the amount of Sulmet 12.5% is used safely in animals that size- to my knwledge and in my experience, yes. A 10 lb kid should get 4.5 cc prevention, and 9 cc a day for treatment of the 12.5% sulfadimethoxine.

    Its really easier for me to calculate how much to give babies at that 12.5% concentration (no matter if its brand name or what) to remember 1 cc of 12.5 % per kg. (Pugh says 119mg/kg, and the concentration is 125 mg per cc. close enough for goverment work! ) Just double it for the treatment dose.

    Hope that helps!
     

  3. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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    Oh MY Laura! I just recently learned that 1 cc is 1 ml (or close enough) and that 1 oz. = 30cc's (or close enough) and I was SO proud of my new knowledge! And now we're talking mg/kg vs. cc/lb and percentages ...........I was absent that day in school!!!

    Okay, so I am trying to give Di-Methox (Sulfadimethoxine) and yes, I just wanted to have someone actually verify that I should give this little girl this big ol' amount of drug! ........and since it differs from last year's vet dosing.......but I've learned that notoriously vets underestimate the metabolism of a goat and underdose them.

    Talking about the 40%.............do you know if it's clear? Does it look just like the 12.5%? The vets at my clinic cannot check the bottle as they SWEAR they "haven't carried anything like this in years" ???? GO FIGURE.

    So, Thank you for the links and the dosages........ do you happen to know how many ounces to put in a 5 gallon watr buckt for the rest of the herd?
     
  4. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

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    sorry, I dont know, I dont use it in water. If I did I would be using the prevention dose level in the water. I really dont like that method, because IMHO the chances are they are going to get much smaller doses than are effective, and then you chance creating resistant strains that the treatment prevention doses wont work on when you need it.

    The 40% I have is clear, but its a generic, not a brand name. Not sure if that tells you anything.

    I understand this math can be confusing if you dont use it often! Its not as hard as it sounds to figure kg.

    just take the pound weight- for example, 10 lbs. and divide by 2.2.
    Lets do that: 10/2.2=4.54 (yea, its OK to use a calculator!)

    so the baby is 4.5 kg! if you remember 1 cc (or ml) for each kg for this drug, its easy to see the prevention dose is them 4.5 cc for a 10 lb baby.

    A much easier way to do this, is to figure out your dosages for each med you use- lets use the 12.5% Sulmet as an example. Now that you know that the prevention dose is 4.5 cc for 10 lbs, and the treatment dose is double that or 9 cc for 10 lbs, take a sticky label, write that on there, and stick it on the bottle! That makes it really easy! As your goats gain weight or you go to use others, you just use the info you wrote on the bottle (I put it there cause its so easy!) and calculate it easy from that.

    Is that clear as mud?
     
  5. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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    Laura, THANK you! Yes, that's much clearer! You just convert lbs into kgs(lbs/2.2), and then give 1 cc per kg. but that's only on this drug and concentration, right? Double that for treatment. All 5 days? or just a loading dose? If I used only 3 cc Wed., then 6 Thurs. would you start the entire sequence over using the 9 ccs? or just up it to 9 today and consider this day 3?

    Her poop is like a dog's ............it's not watery; just what I call "soft serve" GROSS, huh? Makes ya not wanna eat Dairy Queen anymore!

    Ok, thank you so much.

    P.S. what is pugh and imho? if ya don't mind explaining. :D

    P.S.S. I will definitely write it on the bottle!

    P.S.S.S. Is your choice then the 40%? When I looked up 40% all I got was the injectable kind. Is yours the injectable kind and you just do it orally? Where did you get it? 9 cc's is a pretty doggone big dose to get down this baby!
     
  6. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Prevention=119mg/kg =12.5# kid gets 5.1cc
    Treatment=238mg/kg= 12.5# kid gets 10.2cc
    This is for 5 days and repeat ever 21 days. So if you have a 40 lb kid u would need to give orally aprox 32 and 1/2 cc orally. This is why we either use 40% or corid.

    Please don't try to use this and do any good by putting it in water
     
  7. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

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    You just convert lbs into kgs(lbs/2.2), and then give 1 cc per kg. but that's only on this drug and concentration, right?

    Correct!

    Double that for treatment. All 5 days? or just a loading dose? If I used only 3 cc Wed., then 6 Thurs. would you start the entire sequence over using the 9 ccs? or just up it to 9 today and consider

    If I am just doing it routine, then I use the prevention dose. If I see symptoms like loose stools, (or with a positive fecal) I would use the treatment dose. I would start over today, and forget the other days.

    Pugh is the author of Goat Medicine and thats there the doses came from. IMHO is "In My Humble Opinion." Helps tell you that this an opinion, the way i do it. I'd definitely advise you to take the advice of our more experienced and knowledgeable members if it differs from mine.

    If I'm using a sulfa, IMHO :) I'd definitely use the 40% by preference just because its so much easier to get into them. Ive done both and like the 40% better for that reason. They will take it in the bottle or lambar, too. :) thats a plus! Especially when you are getting into larger and heavier kids, its a struggle with the larger amounts. the stuff tastes awful. I couldnt find the 40% online anywhere lately, there's a local feed store nearby that had it. I grabbed the last one off the shelf about a week or 2 ago to have for just in case. he said he was going to reorder. it cost about 20 bucks.
     
  8. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    D.G. Pugh DVM is the author of Sheep and Goat Medicine-copywrite 2001(with Veterinary consult access-5/14/07)
    Mary C. Smith DVM and David M. Sherman, DVM,MS are the authors of Goat Medicine-(copyright 1994)

    With Goat Medicine (IMO) being the easier of the two to understand for the layman. The latter of Pugh's book being on my wish list for X-Mas. :lol

    Honestly, there are no shortcuts to coccidia prevention. It needs to be dosed by weight, individually. Not mixed in water buckets. It takes very little time out of your life for 5 days until your kids are big enough to control it on their own. It makes all the difference in the appearance and health of your animals for the rest of their lives.
    Kaye
     
  9. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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    Thanks Kaye. So you would dose adult goats who have no symptoms as well as the baby who has coccidia? Or are you just saying the ones who has symptoms? :?
     
  10. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    On adults...I would do a fecal first to see how they are handling coccidia on their on...also check for parasites and what kind. Fecals are cheaper than treatments. IF adults show signs of scours and you know you've wormed and killed the offending parasites, then an outbreak of coccidia may be your problem.

    In adults, if they have a substantial amount of coccidia, then they need treated...but realize it's not going to help the damage already done to the intestines. It's going to lower their loads and make it easier for their bodies to control them. Coccidia and worms are two totally different things.

    In kids up to about 9-11 mo., prevention and treatment (along with good feed/minerals) is the ONLY way to get them to their genetic potentials in appearance and health.
    Kaye