Does anyone run a herd share?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by nappint, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. nappint

    nappint New Member

    268
    0
    0
    I think we have decided on a herd share agreement rather than a Grade A raw permit for our dairy goats. I've never been involved in a herd share before and I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the day to day workings. I have lots of questions like how do the share holders usually pay ie; do you bill them? how do you divvy up the milk? how do you handle the dry months? etc, etc, etc.

    Any thoughts, experiences or links would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
     
  2. laughter777

    laughter777 New Member

    465
    0
    0
    I have been looking into the herd share options. PM for what I have found
     

  3. paulaswrld

    paulaswrld New Member

    629
    0
    0
    I do herd shares, and love it. PM me and we can chat, plus I have lots of info on my webpage.

    Paula
     
  4. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

    993
    0
    0
    Instead of PMing.. can't we discuss this openly? We're moving to shares ourselves and would love to "chat" about the pros & cons.. :)
     
  5. laughter777

    laughter777 New Member

    465
    0
    0
    So 3 in Texas wanna do shares...any others? Basically what I sent her in PM was that I had googled herd share and emailed goat dairies that I found doing it (across the country, not Texas specific) and I asked for any help advice, etc and if they mind sharing their contracts. (some yes, some no) I also gave her 2 links that I read that have helped me decide what I may or may not wanna do
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=r...TU2NlpQmpSUbzpjMg&sig2=gfWQfP6GE42eDIbEQUMwsw

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=r...DRGCdLvmbZ5K4Vnww&sig2=8aUfVXKc0Ukg9YZEPPHOZg

    Hope that helps
     
  6. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

    163
    0
    16
    Sarah,
    I am also interested in any information you may have.
     
  7. laughter777

    laughter777 New Member

    465
    0
    0
    For anyone interested the links I posted are GREAT. Second join the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund (I need to take my advice on this one!!) I will look over the contracts I have and try to get back on with all of them in a couple of days. Most likely I will come on and ask for your email address and then I will forward them to you as well as the address to some that I printed.
     
  8. laughter777

    laughter777 New Member

    465
    0
    0
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    1
    0
    Don't quite know why we would have a herd share here in TX as it isn't legal here anyway and if you do and have a website the state will make you take it down but leave you be to continue the program. So how are you going to advertize anyway. I sell all the milk I have via word of mouth and listing on the real milk site. Look at Vicki been doing it for years and years. and the reason we don't have this on an open forum is because there are lurkers out there that will turn everyone in. So this thread probalby will not stay her much longer. Get all copied and paste to your computer if you want the info.
     
  10. nappint

    nappint New Member

    268
    0
    0
    Interesting info Sondra. Can you direct me to a link where I can see that info about herd shares being illegal in Texas?

    I'm not really worried about lurkers turning me in as I haven't "done" anything illegal...yet. :biggrin

    Thanks!
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    1
    0
    Guess maybe I am wording that not right. Lets see if I can get my tongue really twisted up.
    OK NO WHERE in the rules of selling milk in TX does it say or hint to cow shares or goat shares, as being legal even on the Raw milk site which has done alot of research into which states can do what, doesn't list it being an option in TX. NOW that being said I know of 2 and possibly 3 cow shares that are going on in full force in the DFW area However I also know that one out of Stevenville had to close down their website and were told not to advertise at all. So what good does it do is my question If we can't even advertise that we have goats shares available. Why not just sell it period, or better yet just let your friends come and get some milk if they happen to want to put money in your coffer as a thank you gift then so be it. :)
    Am sure Vicki has a more detailed explaination.
     
  12. laughter777

    laughter777 New Member

    465
    0
    0
    I am also interested in shares and the legality of them. The inspector basically told my husband to do things illegally to start with! crazy. OP (I think) spoke with an attorney at Consumer and Farm Legal Defense Fund or what ever it is called and wasn't told anything about it. May have to think about just selling then, I just like the having a contract idea...etc
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    It's just busy work that will not help if you get turned in. In fact it actually gives them the proof that you are in fact selling milk from your farm to others. I just don't see the need for pretending others actually own your goats, or pretending you are selling for pet milk when both is illegal anyway. And since most Grade A daires deliever milk to common pick up places including farmers markets, which is illegal also, there isn't alot of anything legal going on in the goat milk arena anyway.

    So....how do you think milking shares will help you skirt the laws?

    The law is very basic. You can only sell raw milk ON your farm in Texas if you have a Grade A dairy.

    Now what are the teeth in the law? What can they really do to you? If they do fine you how can they enforce the fine? How can they prove you sell milk?

    I am a soaper, all my milk is sold to those who make soap.

    You customers are the most loyal folks around, it will not be your milk customers who turn you in and get everyone once again listed on realmilk.com getting letters in the mail again. It is always another person selling milk who gets their panties in a wad, someone with an axe to grind and out and out jealousy.

    Be honest with your milk customers, tell them it is illegal...in fact it actually in many ways spurs them to get you even more customers to know that the government wants to control the nutricious food they want to purchase.

    I think shares make waves, like selling cheese and other things you make with milk or the milk itself off your farm. Vicki
     
  14. laughter777

    laughter777 New Member

    465
    0
    0
    Vicki,
    I like the points you make. I had been looking at legal ways to do it without the initial upfront cost of grade A. We plan to get grade A in the future. my hubby talked to an inspector this morning and the inspector told him he would give him a book of how things need done etc etc and that we should just start out under the radar selling off the farm to get $ coming in and a customer base. Thought that was odd...
     
  15. Rose

    Rose New Member

    1,004
    0
    0
    Sounds like an unusually pragmatic inspector. I'm amazed.

    When you get the book, could you post the source or other info so I could order one?

    Thanks,
    Rose
     
  16. nappint

    nappint New Member

    268
    0
    0
    Well without going into too much detail about why we've chosen to go the herd share route I will try to explain my personal reason.

    I just don't want to deal in milk without a permit or some form of legal protection.

    Herd shares are not illegal provided that everyone stays within the confines of the contract. The problems with herd shares and any contractual agreement arise when one party or another performs outside of the contract. I had heard what Sondra heard before about herd shares being illegal but I have not been able to find anything that specifically prohibits it in Texas - I was hoping she had found something.

    I know it may seem strange to some to go the route of a herd share BUT the fact is that within the scope of the contract I will be doing nothing illegal - sure it might be a bunch of legalese, smoke and mirrors and mumbo jumbo but it is (as of today) within the law.

    To answer some questions - I won't be advertising and I won't be contracting with people I know personally so I feel I need to have a contract that spells out the agreement. I haven't blindly jumped into this - I've been researching for months and have spent a lot of time talking to people with Grade A permits (both raw and retail) but there isn't anyone in this area who runs a herd share. There are a lot of people who sell their milk "out the back door" :) - and there is nothing wrong with that if they are comfortable doing it - but due to my circumstances I just can't.

    I am also a member of FTCLDF and have talked with Pete the raw milk attorney :) I feel comfortable with him and the organization - they have been very helpful. He wrote my contract and we talked at length about herd shares. He did tell me that Texas has plans to eventually clarify herd shares but that they haven't yet.

    I never meant for there to be any sort of conflict in this thread - I just wanted info on the workings of a herd share. I don't like reinventing the wheel if I don't have to :lol

    Thanks everyone for your inputs - they are all valid and I appreciate your time in responding
     
  17. paulaswrld

    paulaswrld New Member

    629
    0
    0
    Goat share /boarding is the only way in TN that you can legally get involved with milk sales of any kind. Be it for general use, soap making or cheese making We had the inspector here on our property and we met, had lawyers meet and were advised, and have it in writing that goat shares/boarding are okay, not yet illegal here in TN. But, that is the only way I can sell milk, not even to soap makers if they don't have a share.

    You all are welcome to see my FAQ's in my website and I will be happy to share my contracts with anyone that wants them.

    Paula

    So that
     
  18. MayLOC

    MayLOC New Member

    352
    0
    0
    I thought about milk shares several years back. With little knowledge on the subject at the time, my mind thought simply: raw milk sales illegal, but milk shares were legal. I (of course) wanted to have something legal backing me up. Now with much more knowledge on the matter I am no longer interested in milk shares.

    With all that I have read on the subject (including the first link that laughter posted above also) seems that if/when taken to court on the matter, fault would be proven and found with every milk share owner that I have thus far come across. What I see written on websites and their advertisement means often points to amounts (of milk) per price charged. Along with several other little things that really point right to the fact that they are indeed selling milk (which of course they are) and not really a share in an animal.

    So my thoughts now are why put yourself on their radar which others have also said. And yes those getting (anything) from you are the most loyal to you. I no longer believe that a contract would help you at all if you ran into trouble, it would probably serve as the fuel to take you down.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  19. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

    509
    0
    16
    I just spoke with the Utah dept of Agriculture and board of health. They sent me the Grade A licensor information and Raw milk sales licensor information.

    Utah Law specifically prohibits herd sharing or anything like unto it . . . don't remember the exact legalise. FYI to any Utahan's
     
  20. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

    993
    0
    0
    Wow! I'm sure glad y'all are discussing this! :)
    We started by contacting the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund that Sarah spoke about and they put me in contact with a lawyer who deals with Texas law. He sent us a contract (very legalese) and we also got a copy of a contract that Paula sent (Thanks!!) I took the liberty to revamp and combined the two and sent a copy to the lawyer to look over. He liked it so much, he's asked to use it. (If you want a copy, email me) There is no law in Texas that prohibits shares or says they are illegal. I did it because most of the people that come to my farm know my animals, heck they even know their names and we figured this was what would work for us. We will probably revamp the whole thing later, to include cows. :)