Doe with sluggish labor

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Anita Martin, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    It looks like there were only two kids. She passed a large amount of placental material. She was induced, and started seriously kidding 35 hours later. Last year, she took all day and I could have lost her. This year, the first kid came out fine. A big buck with a floppy non-alpine ear. Then her labor began to slow down. I went in and felt another kid. Felt like it was presented correctly. I could feel feet, soles facing down, and a head. It was way down there. I gave 30cc CMPK in several different places. I went in several times to be sure the kid was presenting correctly. It began to move farther along the birth canal. She finally gave birth while I had went in the house to take the buck inside. A doeling, exactly half the size of the boy. She was 4 pounds, he was 8 pounds.) This was day 28. What is the best antibiotic or treatment for this situation? (me having to go in several times for checking). Doe is doing fine now. Is this slow labor likely to happen every year? Also, is there something besides the CMPK injectable that I could have used that would work better?
    For the longest time I thought there was another kid in there. She was huge, and after she kidded she was still big and pawing the ground. I went in as far as I could , past my wrist and felt nothing. She's been resting in her stall for several hours now and has stopped pawing.
    Thanks in advance.
    Anita
     
  2. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    If you just went in as far as your wrist, that isn't far enough. To make sure a doe, especially a mature doe who has kidded before, doesn't have anymore kids inside her I go in up to my elbow and do a 'swoop' to make she all her kids have been born. Going in as far as your wrist on a full size doe isn't going to tell you anything.

    Sara
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Remember the uterus is a heart, with two 'horns' never understood the horn analogy myself. Anita, go put your arm next to the newborn buck. Now think about where your wrist is in comparison to where it is on the buckling...think you could have felt anything? Think even with your whole arm in you could have done any damage? Unless you are built like Arnold Schwartznager you aren't hurting anything putting your arm in. You need to change the "It looks like there was only two kids" to I did a pelvic and there was only two kids.

    And no I do not put does on antibiotics for perfectly normal deliveries like you had.

    Yes you can move to calcium injections, and also oxytocin...but we teach baby steps on the forum because they are read by all levels of folks with goats in which some of what we may do on our farms, without us on the phone with them or a vet relationship is dangerous. Vicki
     
  4. eliya

    eliya New Member

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    I prepare my does for 2 months before kidding by feeding raspberry leaves. This tones the uterus and the muscles involved in birth. It really helps a doe have a good labor that goes quickly and without complications. Last year I got too busy or forgot or something, but I didn't do the raspberry leaves. We had a lot more misaligned kids, long labors and difficult births.

    You can give your doe a strong raspberry leaf tea now to help her body recover from the delivery and help get any more kids out if there are any. Add two handfuls of the dried, cut and sifted leaves to 1 pint of water. Slowly heat the water (with the leaves added) until it just comes to a boil. Then remove from the heat and allow to sit for at least 3 hours. Keep covered the whole time it is heating and steeping. Opening the cover lets out important oils. You can add a teaspoon of real honey. Make sure it isn't *regular* honey from the store which often has corn syrup added and is from sugar water fed bees.

    Oh, and I agree with Vicki and Sara, you don't know if there are more kids or not, unless you stick your whole arm in.

    Good luck with your doe!
     
  5. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    That raspberry leaf tea works for humans as well... there are a whole host of herbs for helping sluggish labor in human... anyone know if any of those also work or are safe for goats? I wonder if additional calcium might help me in my sluggish labors...?!
     
  6. paulaswrld

    paulaswrld New Member

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    Eliya, where can I find the leaves?

    Thanks,

    Paula
     
  7. eliya

    eliya New Member

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    Paula, some health food stores will sell them. I order them over the internet from herbalcom.com AmeriHerb has better prices, but I haven't been able to get a hold of them for several months. Herbalcom.com is the next best price I can find anywhere. I just bought 30 lbs for my does.
    Like Billie said, there are lots of herbs that help with sluggish labor. And you can use most if not all of them on goats. You may be interested in the book "The Complete Herbal Handbook For Farm and Stable" by Juliette de Bairacli Levy. Fascinating book with TONS of good information on raising animals naturally and using herbs to heal when they do get sick.
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    BUT and I am a natural freak you can't rely on just herbals alone in a case like this you need to have the drugs on hand to use if needed.
     
  9. ChristinaF.

    ChristinaF. Guest

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    Another place for getting red raspberry leaves and lots of other herbs for good prices is www.bulkherbstore.com . I use them when I'm expecting and they have really helped. I wouldn't use them soley if my doe was having trouble though. Then you need extra help fast. The red raspberry is more of a preventive measure, but won't always ensure an easy birth with everyone every time.

    Christina
     
  10. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Unless you just have a few does, have the time, all that jazz...you NEED to have some type(oral or injectable) of Calcium supplement on hand. This IS Jan. and JUST the beginning of kidding season. Don't wait until you have a doe that quits pushing, goes down on you before due date, develops milk fever, etc... At LEAST look at your feed stores and make sure they carry the needed supplies.
    Nothing is more irritating than for me to need something NOW and I don't have it! It's called planning. That stuff doesn't ruin and until you open it, it can sit on the shelf or opened, in the refrig.!
    If you have livestock, there are a few things that you need to keep on hand. It's like having a dog and no dog food. :really
    Kaye
     
  11. paulaswrld

    paulaswrld New Member

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    Thanks so much, great websites. Yes, I agree with kaye and Sondra. I (DD)mpicked up my bottle of CMPK injectable, oxy, and Calcium last week. CDT was ordered and kidding pens have been built in my garage....First doe is due 2/5....what a great time of year.

    Paula
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Too add to Kaye's post, as we get further into kidding season you have to remember that you are asking questions of us, who have spend hours writing on here for you to learn. We will be kidding out our own does, taking the time to help others, and everything we have said for years is for naught? You must go prepared into kidding season. IF you don't have the basics on hand the only answer we can give you is to call the vet or kill the doe and get the kids out.

    If one person calls me who hasn't done a pelvic and wants me to guess over the phone if she has passed her placenta or has more kids in her because she is big, I will come on the forum and make fun of you publically :crazy

    Call before you have the train wreck of kids in which the doe has pushed for hours, and you have watched, I will help you go in and figure out what you are feeling. Call me before 10am? it had better be life and death :twisted

    I know some have not had children, but be logical about this, even if you drink raspberry tea everyday, would your OB not do a pelvic to feel for presentation? Go home and go to bed without seeing placenta? The nurses make sure the baby isn't latched on and nursing well before leaving for work? Let you push until you are exhausted and then perhaps interveen?

    Get your kidding kit ready now, get your basic kid meds now. Vicki
     
  13. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    :rofl No explaination needed!

    LOL...course I AM in a good mood today and still have two weeks vacation BEFORE kidding starts!
    Kaye
     
  14. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    well between My doe and Bethany's doe, we ought to have Everyone sufficiently panicked enough to have picked up the meds they need by now : )
    Which is probably why I posted in the first place ; )
     
  15. ChristinaF.

    ChristinaF. Guest

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    Yes, I'm taking my GP puppies to the vet this week and I'm bringing a list of RX items that I'm purchasing from the vet that day. Kidding starts for us in February. I'm getting prepared now.

    Christina
     
  16. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    to add... the red raspberry leaf tea... I buy "Pregnancy Tea" from Traditional Medicinals. It's the same thing. For me, if it's working, I'd hate to see what my labors would be like w/o it. But, in some women, it does work wonders. I had been an "all-natural" kind of person for years, but have learned the hard way that sometimes drugs are a necessity. And thankful to be a human, b/c in my last labor, they'd had to have just shot me and taken the baby!
     
  17. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    Well, at least I had what I needed on hand for this delivery. Last year I had next to nothing and knew next to nothing. Many things I am still unsure of, for fear of causing harm. For instance, the bottle of CMPK injectable that I had gave dire warnings about it possibly causing cardiac arrest. I remember this doe last year took all day to have two kids. I never went in and everyone here told me I should have because the kids were surely tangled. This year I didn't wait. I had my printed sheets I got here on this forum and when it said to inject 30 cc of CMPK in two different places for sluggish labor I did it and it worked. (I had already gone in and found kid #2 way down in the birth canal..this was about 30 or 40 minutes later). Once I gave the injections I rechecked and could feel the kid getting closer and that it was in the correct position. It was afterward I got confused. I went in to what seemed to be the bottom of her uterus. I couldn't go any farther, and I didn't feel anything. I watched her the rest of the night and kept her in a stall until this morning. Her stomach looks flatter today and she seems just fine. Her milk is starting to come in and the babies are growing and have already gained weight since yesterday. Does the size difference seem abnormal? (8 pound buck, 4 pound doe, delivered on day 148?) The doe definately does not seem anywhere near as mature as he is. Her legs are more wobbly and her face looks much tinier. She is gaining weight (my scale said 6 pounds today, after a meal), but I'm wondering if this size difference is common, or if she could be a runt? I am definately glad I used the dex along with the lute as I feel she might not have survived.
    Thanks so much. I was listening!
    Anita
     
  18. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    LOL...yes, it will, in a cow or goat if you give it IV as directed on the bottle, without knowing how. Those are also warnings for the IV use in cattle as that's what it's intended.
    Reason we spend so much of our time finding out the proper doses and ways of using it FOR GOATS BEFORE we list it on here.
    Kaye
     
  19. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I've seen litters where the kids were different size. If the doe was still with the buck, she coulld have conceived the doeling a week later. I've also had times when I hand bred and know all the kids were the same age and one kid was alot smaller. Kathie
     
  20. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    usually here at least when more than one kid there is always a tiny one, and usually a doeling.