Doe and deworming

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Cotton Eyed Does, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. Cotton Eyed Does

    Cotton Eyed Does New Member

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    I have a 14 month old boer doe that has had twins a couple of months ago. I have not done a fecal on this doe, but I have dewormed her at least 4 times with Cydectin and Valbazen, alternating times, sometimes 10 days apart, sometimes 3-4 days apart. I have now given a shot of Ivermectin Plus twice. I came back from vacation and found her with the typical bottle jaw. HOW can this be. This is twice she has been like this since she had those kids. I have been deworming her. I have 2 fresh new bottles of Cydectin and Valbazen from Jeffers. She is so swelled up this evening she looks like she would pop if I stuck a pin in her. I gave her the second shot of Ivermectin Plus this afternoon right after I found her like this. What else can I do? This is just crazy that these boers are so darn hard to deworm.
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    They usually come to you with these super worms, that are then pooped out all over your pastures. You don't have to be on a boer goat forum for very long to understand why you are having these problems.

    I have to fecal, I have to know what worm I am fighting. You can't keep switching wormers, it simply doesn't work. You can't keep using wormers without knowing why you are using them. And the bottle jaw and swelling can also be from liver failure from all the wormers.

    The swelling is telling you that your doe is severely anemic. Fecal to see what you are dealing with. IF HC than get the prohibit and use it at the new dosage since Cydectin isn't working. Or use the cydectin and then refecal in 7 days, if you don't have less eggs you know your wormer isn't working. If it worked than repeat the dosage in 10 days and again in 10 days. This will break the adult lifecycle in your goats. But you have to use worm pens. Right now with the rain everyday our pastures are flooding, the worm larve and eggs are up to the level of the grass that floods...the goats then eat it, stick them to their feet, get it into the barns and sleeping areas, they are ingested. Your worm burden is right back. Until the grass gets above the level of the pasture puddles, we have no choice but to fecal nearly every week. A&M will tell you to worm the whole herd after we haven't had alot of rain and then get puddling rain that makes the grass grow.

    Move your boers out of areas with grass if you can and keep them in the woods, it's the only thing that works here. When the boys are moved to the woods pen they won't get wormed until breeding season starts.

    Make sure your mineral is a good one, spending more on my mineral I simply worm less. If you don't want to spend the money on the Tech Master try the Onyx...Nutrena store at Ric's signal on 105 can get it for you, I didn't ask the price. Google it I think there was a store in New Waverly that also sold it.

    "I have not done a fecal on this doe, but I have dewormed her at least 4 times with Cydectin and Valbazen, alternating times, sometimes 10 days apart, sometimes 3-4 days apart."

    Read what you wrote again.....if it was a new person with goats on here you would be alarmed. Everything we put into our goats is processed by the liver, and Boers don't have the strongest constitutions as it is :)

    The bottle jaw won't go down with a worming her bloodlevel has to rise...she is going to have a long haul back to good health with this weather. Vicki
     

  3. Cotton Eyed Does

    Cotton Eyed Does New Member

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    I did a cocktail with Cydectin and Valbazen. I dewormed her when she kidded then 10 days later, then she had bottle jaw and I gave her Cydectin and 3-4 days later I gave her Valbazen. That is the 4 times I dewormed her. About a week ago I gave her a shot of Ivermectin Plus and then I gave her one yesterday when I saw her all swelled up. I wasn't clear on what I gave her and when. I will get a fecal sample on her done and see what is up. I knew I should have done that, but I just haven't taken the time. I thought I could just use the dewormers when I was suppose to and it should just take care of it. Hmmm... I hope it isn't liver failure. They do have a good mineral with right amount of copper in it that I got at the feed store. I've gone over all of these things in my mind a dozen times, but I just can't see why it could be liver failure. That came to mind, but I didn't think I had over done it with the wormer. I'll just take a sample to Merry and get her look at it. Thanks for your ideas.
     
  4. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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    Vicki, if you use a worm pen, you just worm the population, then lock them up and all the poop with worms comes out in one pen? Then clean the pen and put them back in the normal area?

    What about the poop that's scattered all over the drylots and in crevaces from before the worming? Do the worms die in the sun in a certain period of time without hosts? or must EVERY solitary piece of feces be picked up in order for the worm pen idea to work in the first place?

    Tracy
     
  5. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    The larve and and eggs leave the poop very very quickly, why for fecal samples you have to have fresh poop you saw pooped out.

    The larve and eggs can live for years under a tiny amount of soil unless you have a deep freeze or live where it is very arid and they get no soil moisture.

    The worm pen for me is just a part of my backyard that does only go into for 12 hours when wormed, then the pen comes down and it's just mowed backyard that the chickens can get to.

    Picking up the poop is futile because the eggs and larve are already out of the old poop, even 12 hours, and is in the soil. Remember that you are only killing adult worms, wormer does nothing to eggs and larve but make them evacuate ship, or arrest (put to sleep in the system to awaken when the enviornment is more hospitaple for them to grow into and adult and suck blood and lay eggs. Part of the life cycle of most worms is taken place outside the body and why the eggs come out in poop all the time. I rarely if ever see no eggs on fecal. But it's what eggs you see that is a biggy here...well and of course how many. Vicki
     
  6. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Vicki....are you saying that the active stage of most wormers only last for 12 hrs or less from the time it is given?

    Whim
     
  7. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yes, I went to 3 talks at our club and one at Praire View Texas A&M (that has a working dairy) and a large boer herd, by Dr. Craig and Craddock who are parisitologist...they study wormers on hair sheep and goats at the Edwards Plateau facility...and no the studies are not funded by the makers of the wormers...when asked he said "I wish!".

    In 12 hours the flush of eggs and larve in the fecals are done, and will go down to zero....but if they are back in 7 days you know that the wormer didn't touch the adult blood sucking worms.

    I think that for my farm, either cydectin does have a much longer residual effect or it does such a good job on adult worms we don't see worm eggs in any number for months....but I always have to preface that and my alfalfa pellet feeding from now on with....my goats have access to the woods, when they are out eating most of the time they are eating with their heads up...I also have feeders that don't promote poop or feet in them. Vicki
     
  8. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Hmmmm.......next time I have to worm, I think I'll try to run fecals on the animal about every 2 hrs (for about 12 hrs) after worming just to see what happens here. I usually wait 2 to 3 days after worming, and then run a check...do it again about 10 to 12 days later. I know that My egg counts are usually near nothing at 10 to 12 days post worming.
    I guess I assumed that cydectin was still working for at least a few days from what I've seen here. Thanks for that info.

    Whim
     
  9. Belle

    Belle New Member

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    Let us know what you find, I think it sounds interesting. I may try to do this too on the next one, if I can find the time.
     
  10. Nancy

    Nancy New Member

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    Good information to know. Let us know what you find out.
     
  11. Sharpgoat

    Sharpgoat New Member

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