Discrimination towards Miniature breeds

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Daniel Babcock, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    I own a small herd of Miniature LaManchas. For my families situation, they are the perfect breed. After much research, I have found what I deem to be "my ideal breed standard" however in order to obtain and maintain this desire, I would like to breed no less than 67.5% (LaMancha) kids. I have two doelings that are 75%, three 50% doelings and a 50% doe in milk, as well as two 50% bucks.

    To make a long story short, I have been trying to purchase a very correct LaMancha doe that I can breed this fall to my bucks. I have spoken with the owners of 4 does that fit the requirements I have. Each time I have entered into negotiations, each of them has been willing to sell, until I mention that I will breed them to a Mini-Mancha buck, then, each himmed and hawed and later told me they did not have does available for show.

    The last seller I spoke with said "my friends who have gotten into the miniature breeds have not liked them at all and have quickly gotten out."

    Am I missing something? Why such a dislike for miniature breeds?

    I understand breeders want their stock out and being shown and getting championship legs, but it seems to me that there is more than this. It seems like there are goat people who discriminate against the miniature breeds.

    Why is this?
     
  2. NWgoats

    NWgoats New Member

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    I have come up against similar attitudes. In my area, we have lots of what I would call "goat snobs". They hear I have Nigerians or want to breed miniatures and I get "the look" and an "Oh.......(long pause) why would you want those?"
    I just smile and tell them my goats are for me and I like them.
    I know that each person has a personal preference for breed, but it is unnecessary to make others feel like their choice of goats is inferior. I guess just don't tell them what you are breeding plans are.
     

  3. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Michele-

    It is tough to feel "slighted" for personal preference, however I am in the business of building relationships and friends and not just raising goats.

    I would much prefer to tell people my plans, and allow them to "snub" me than to imply that I was doing one thing and tick people off by doing another.

    I will try to be patient and find breeders with goats that meet my requirements, and continue being forthwith at all times. I just hope I don't have to wait too long!
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Happens all the time
     
  5. NWgoats

    NWgoats New Member

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    I am also trying to build relationships with other goat people. I was not implying that you should hide your plans, just don't volunteer that information. The breeders I purchased from were fine with my plans to raise miniatures from their stock. I have to admit that it may have been because they were very competitive and outright admitted that "well, at least you won't be competing against me in the ring." If the breeder was one that "slighted" me as you said, I probably wouldn't have bought from them anyway. So, as you said, just keep looking until you find one that you are comfortable with. I looked at a lot of goats and talked to a lot of people before deciding who to buy from. Good luck finding your goat(s). :D
     
  6. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    The goat folks I know here are more concerned that the does they sell get a good home than who they are bred to. I'm sure you should be able to find some folks that also feel that way. Kathie
     
  7. tiger408

    tiger408 Guest

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    Sorry to hear that you have been treated like that. I guess I have been very fortunate because all the goat people I have met so far have been really nice and very informative. Of course they all have their "my breed is the best" pride :) but that's okay cuz I feel that way about mine too. Got a bit of friendly teasing when I was the only one with LaManchas on a recent packgoat trip. Nothing mean or spiteful though. Hmmm... they were talking about gluing on ears though LOL

    Seems to me that people would be more concerned with whether the animals are going to be well taken care than what you're specific breeding program plans are.

    Just my 2 cents worth.
     
  8. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

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    I'm sorry, I can't help you out as I have Alpines, but if I could, I'd be happy to sell you a nice doe. Good homes are my biggest worry, not who my doe might be bred to. Makes no difference to me. You can even eat the babies, just don't eat my doe! Goat Snobs? Haven't met any yet. Hopefully they are few and far between. Then again, maybe I am one. I did tell a lady she would need certain health tests and a vet recommend before I'd breed her does to my buck... Never heard back from her.
    Good luck with your minatures. I too am toying with the idea of a mini mancha, just for the higher milk fat that I've heard they produce.
    Anita
     
  9. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    My thinking may be way out of line...but, if someone pays me for a goat, it belongs to them to do with what they want. I don't attach strings. If they want to breed to ND, pygmy, make recorded grades, or cabrito...I priced the goat, they paid me, it now belongs to them. :shrug
    Kaye
     
  10. NWgoats

    NWgoats New Member

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    That is what I think. Only a couple of them even asked what plans were for breeding. I was kind of surprised when he said that the breeders he spoke to got strange when he told them his breeding plans. I always thought when you bought a goat, it was yours to do with as you please. Even though when I sold my little wethers, I really wanted them to be pets. He said they would, but you never know. :sniffle
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well I think these breeders that Daniel spoke with are a little over the top but can say from experience that most all, THINK even if they don't say it, that we are just plain weird for breeding Miniatures. There is bias against ND in the show ring at various shows. But there is also bias against the FB no earred goats. Boy was I ever one of those people swore I would never have one :) and being the big mouth that I am I sure had to eat my words as I went from earred goats to no ears. Nearly lost a husband when I did that boy talk abt bias. :)
     
  12. Agape Oaks

    Agape Oaks Guest

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    I've run into the bias in entering the state fair of TX ADGA show....Nigerian Dwarf goats aren't sanctioned & there's no AOP class. Having an ADGA show right in my backyard & being banned from it has been irritating to me. We did enter 3 of our Nigerians in the youth dairy goat show as AOP, but are unable to enter the open show. Since I can't enter the open show with them, I won't enter any of my standard goats either. It was suggested to me that I enter the NDGA show, but I don't do NDGA.....I have DAIRY goats!

    To me when you buy a goat , it's yours to do with as you choose. I'd always rather my goats go to a good home then anything else.
     
  13. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    Bias is something you just need to get used to. We have Kinder's, talk about bias! :rofl

    Anyway, most breeders want the best home for their animals. If they were concerned about thier La Mancha doe maybe it was because they thought she wouldn't get a permanent home. When you finally start breeding your own animals you will also feel a little protective of some. For instance, I don't want my registered Kinder does being eaten and I won't sell them for meat. They go to a breeding family or they stay here. Beyond that, if a family decides to do something else with the goats they buy from me- well it's their choice.

    Breeders do get to make decisions that further the best interests of the breed and of the individual animal.

    Just keep looking. I bet you will find someone who will help you.
     
  14. Amanda Lee

    Amanda Lee Member

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    I agree...just keep looking. Those goat folk's are just scared of the unknown.
    Good Luck with your sereach!
     
  15. eliya

    eliya New Member

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    I have seen many standard breeders who do not like the idea of the minis. Most of the time they are converted when they see the minis in person or hear about how much they milk. :D I have a friend who raised standard sized goats and he was pretty critical of the Nigerians when I raised them. Shortly after I got out of the ND's and only had MiniNubians, the ND's were recognized by ADGA. Then my friend started seeing them at ADGA shows and was impressed by the udders on those little goats. So then he didn't think I was so strange for having had ND's but he still kind if rolled his eyes at the MiniNubians. When he heard about the production I was getting from these little goats though, he was a bit impressed. I still have to get him to come out and see them in person - I think he'll be completely won over if he could actually see them.

    I think the standard breeders who are prejudiced against the Mini breeds often just need to be educated about them.
     
  16. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I've run into the bias in entering the state fair of TX ADGA show....Nigerian Dwarf goats aren't sanctioned & there's no AOP class. Having an ADGA show right in my backyard & being banned from it has been irritating to me.
    .....................

    With Pat Faucett running the show anyway she wants, why not just get all the ND breeders posting to District 6 and just point blank keep asking her why until you get an answer. It was eluded to in email last month but not point blank. Also why not contact your directors from Texas, Caroline Lawson and Vivian Procotor and ask them if they can help. Get together and gurantee her so many goats next year...and of course you can go to the fair board yourself. We wanted changes at the Houston Livestock show when I was first showing with my daughters....we tryed it as a club, it wasn't until myself and another Mom simply went to the board that we were able to change the rules we wanted changed....Open Youth instead of 4H and FFA.

    Also know that the person putting on the show for years is set in their ways, but also has faught an uphill battle for so long, they may also simply don't want to fight the battle to add another breed. But I do agree I see no reason why you can't be in AOP for the first couple year until she sees the amounts of entries you all bring.

    And to the OP.

    I see both sides of this. I do want does and bucks I sell to be bred to their breed and to continue my work. This would be multiplied out hundred fold in a national herd. Now saying that I do have 3 Nubian milkers living at a farm where they are bred as the foundation of her miniNubians. And, Sondra is breeding her minimancha to a purebred LaMancha buck for the hopes of a buck for me so I do not percentage down like some want to.

    So just find another herd. It's education really. Unless you have milked a LaMancha you have no idea how much these guys give day in and day out, cold, heat anything. Until you have milked one of these mini's you have no idea how much they can milk on air. Vicki
     
  17. Agape Oaks

    Agape Oaks Guest

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    I asked Pat point blank & she suggested I enter NDGA....which I won't do. Why should I?! She also said the show would take too long if they added Nigerians....so I figure if she doesn't wnat entries, I won't enter my standard goats :). Seems strange to me to have a show & not want entries!
     
  18. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    I just wish there were more LaMacha breeders close to where I live. There are four reputable LaMancha breeders in my proximity (200 mile radius) They have all said they would not sell to me??? With the price of gas etc, I cant afford to go too far or have goats shipped?
     
  19. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Daniel, I have a friend north of Denver that raises wonderful LaMancha's in fact I may just get one from him next spring
     
  20. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Daniel is is just over $200 to ship, a little more if someone doesn't let you borrow their kennel. Pulling a really nice young does kid out of an excellent herd is many times better than pulling an older does kid out of local animals.

    Alot of breeders will sell kids out of their younger stock for much less than their older stock.

    Another trick is to get the directory for your area, simply find folks who have purchased from these herds, they always sell their stock for less than the name brand :)

    Vicki