Disbudding gone wrong - a redo?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Creamers, May 11, 2013.

  1. Creamers

    Creamers New Member

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    I have disbudded quite a few Nubian and Nigerian kids - never Saanens - well, I did my first Saanen doe kids, and the one kid's clearly didn't take -

    I retained her and do not want horns, but I do not want to do her harm, either.

    I can redo it under sedation with xylazine but my vet doesn't have the Tolazine (what would reverse the effects of the xylazine) for me to buy and I can't afford a $120 bottle for one kid -
    While I know the risks, the 30 year breeder of Saanens I have purchased from and greatly respect has never had any issues and has always used this combo on her kids. . .

    However, I never have used any sedatives with the goats - I know the doses she uses and can't see doing a kid that is 5 weeks old without sedation -

    anyone able to chime in with experience fixing a botched disbudding? Is it too late?

    Has anyone used xylazine without the Yohimbine/Tolazine to reverse the sedation without issue? My vet felt a low dose of xylazine would be ok on its own. . . but I am just not sure.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Necie@Lunamojo

    [email protected] Active Member

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    I have redone a 12 wk old Nubian buck kid with no sedation. It was a bit of a rodeo (I kneel and sit on kids to disbud--this boy was a good 40+ lbs). Don't see why a 5 wk old Saanen doeling would be a problem. Sedation with goats kinda scares me--heard too many bad things about it, I guess. If I thought it was necessary, I'd probably maybe give a shot of banamine and wait half an hour to an hour and then do it. But probably not--I'd just do it. ;)
     

  3. fmg

    fmg New Member

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    I haven't used anesthetic in goats yet, but I have used/helped with other species and used xylazine only with no reversal. They just take longer to wake up. Does your vet have Domitor/Antisedan?
     
  4. Creamers

    Creamers New Member

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    Thank you. This doe is about 30lbs now. . .maybe a little less. I always give banamine, as is. . .I will ask about the Domitor/Antisedan
     
  5. hmcintosh

    hmcintosh New Member

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    We just done a redo on 2 kids that were 3 months old and we just done it the same way as we always would. Don't see no reason to sedate.
     
  6. Caprine Beings

    Caprine Beings New Member

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    We have our babies all done with anesthesia. The vets do not like to use lidacaine but have and they generally use the Xylazine without any Tolazine as a back up. However we do not leave the office until the kids have woken up.
    As long as the Xylazine is used IV it wears off pretty quickly. Those look like they will be a hassle and need to be cut out as the bud has already expanded so the sinus cavitiy will more than likely be exposed. If this were my doe I would wait until they were a bit bigger, cut off the horns with a wire saw and then reburn the whole ridge area (been through this a time or two).

    The trick to Swiss breeds is to burn, scrape off the bud, then burn again.
    Tam
     
  7. AlaynaMay

    AlaynaMay New Member

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    I've done a few kids (including redoing three 8 week-olds) and haven't used sedation yet. My vet said she does give a sedative, (not a knock-them-out kind), but doesn't think it's all that helpful.

    So I'm on the right track when I burn, scrape, then reburn? And is it important to burn the middle of the bud? I usually give it a little something, but not much. Do you think this is important? Also, should I give CD&T to a three month old buckling that I'll be banding soon? (He's someone else's goat.) Or would it be better just to pick up the tetanus antitoxin at a feed store on the way to her house?
     
  8. tlcnubians

    tlcnubians New Member

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    Alayna - I'd definitely give the buckling 2 ccs of tetanus antitoxin when you band him. Regardless of whether he's had any CD&T vaccinations or not. Banding sets up a perfect anaerobic environment for tetanus bacteria. I always give a tetanus antitoxin shot when I band bucklings. Caroline
     
  9. couto_123

    couto_123 New Member

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    My vet taught me to use lidacaine, in 2 spots on each side. I don't have any problem. but then again she is much bigger than I have done.
     
  10. Creamers

    Creamers New Member

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    Thank you. I guess I will take her to the vet - they have gotten to big for me to feel comfortable redoing.
     
  11. Cannon_farms

    Cannon_farms New Member

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    though my vet is a awesome goat vet, he will never touch mine after watching him disbud some kids, here is how its done here, this video is a couple years old but you can see how the buds are popped off, it does take a little bit of pressure but I have never had scurs. Also note the second ring burn thats what you need to do with the buck kids to keep them from getting scurs, your two have an appointment with my guy later this week to get them done before they get too big.
    The one thing I like about this way, is though it takes slightly longer for a bigger goat if youll note I think both sides on a buck kid where done in less than a minute, course this guy does hundreds of kids a year probably :)
    I wouldnt wait too long though, it was nasty business getting that one goat last year dehorned (well scurred)
     
  12. fmg

    fmg New Member

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    Cannon_farms, the video didn't post...
     
  13. Creamers

    Creamers New Member

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    [​IMG]
    Vet isn't willing to reburn - only willing to surgically remove - I'm not willing to do that. . .

    Here is the most recent photo - Any thoughts? I have the drugs to sedate and wake her back up and the doses that have worked for others
    for many years, but my question is. . .

    It is too late to do anything about this, isn't it?
     
  14. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    If she were mine, i would wait until the horns are a bit taller, then band them. Or do the surgery.
     
  15. Horsehair Braider

    Horsehair Braider New Member

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    Band. I agree with Michelle, let them get a little bigger and band them.
     
  16. fmg

    fmg New Member

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    I'm jumping on the banding bandwagon (lol).
     
  17. Creamers

    Creamers New Member

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    Thank you all. I agree. . .just wanted to be sure. Anyone have any horror experiences with banding?
     
  18. fmg

    fmg New Member

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    I think about the worst that could happen is she knocks it off prematurely and bleeds a bunch, which will look nasty all over her face/head, but I don't think it would be enough to kill her.
     
  19. swgoats

    swgoats Active Member

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    The worst part of banding is you have to cut a groove around the base of the scur, and it will bleed and be messy. Don't wait too long cause I had a buck whose scurs were so wide a band wouldn't fit properly. It does hurt terribly. The buck was enraged by the procedure. Incidentally I found that you can get a wire saw at Wal-mart in the camping section. That might be helpful for cutting the groove. We have a buck that was improperly disbudded by the breeder, and we use a wire saw to keep them trimmed short. He does knock them sometimes and looks like something out of a horror movie, but he's fine. It's not troublesome enough for me to want to band again. With scurs it's like a cap, they knock the cap off and it bleeds like crazy, but there is another horn cap growing under it. You have to cut the groove to put on the band or you will not remove the whole horn. You'll just choke off part of it.

    Personally, I would trim it back over a period weeks with horse nippers, and then reburn. As you trim the area where the blood is recedes. Or even just trim them routinely when you trim hooves. If you keep up with it, they will stay short.