disbudding bred doe...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by stoneyheightsfarm, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    I have a question I want to run by you... The doe that I bred this month (only 10 or so days ago, so not sure yet if it took) is going to the vet tomorrow to be disbudded again. She's had it done 3 times already (by someone else) and none of them worked. I was going to have it done sooner, but the vet advised that I wait and make sure they are indeed horns, b/c if just scurs, it may not be worth putting her through that again. Well, they're indeed horns. She and one of my bucks who has a large, unbreakable scur curving around and pressing on his skull are to be sedated, given pain meds, and disbudded. I had them do this with another doe who needed re-disbudding, and they did a beautiful job without all the screaming and struggle that can come with re-doing the horns of an older doe. Question is, do you think this will cause her to abort if she is bred? (stress, or meds?) Are there any other precautions I should take or anything specific I should mention/ask the vet? Also, since I'm having one of my LGDs spayed at this time, too, they recommended that I just leave everyone overnight, rather than making 3 trips up there. They have a barn and will feed them according to my directions. If you were me, would you leave them, or make the extra trip (45 minutes one way) to get the goats home the same night? (The dog will have to stay the night, regardless, and the other LGD will get spayed when this one recovers so I can have at least one "on duty" at all times.) Thanks for any advise and/or suggestions!
     
  2. Bilrite Farms

    Bilrite Farms Guest

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    I guess, if it were my doe, I wouldn't do this if she was bred but perhaps others will have a different view.

    Trisha
     

  3. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Would you wait? And then have longer horn to deal with later? If this isn't advisable, I could always take both bucks for re-disbudding (the other buck needs it, too, but he breaks his scurs off regularly, so it's not as urgent) and then maybe try the doe later... Though I'm nervous about letting her horns grow too long and having a bigger problem down the road.... :help2
     
  4. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    At 10 days bred....anything you do can cause the egg not to implant. Look, you've set up the appointment, you've got it all lined out, you still have Dec. to get the doe bred again IF she's preg. and doesn't hold it. You'll know in about 11 or 12 days after the surgery. She either comes in heat or not.
    You have the buck she was bred to at home? YOU have to decide which one is worse...dealing with those horns after she freshens or having May kids.

    LOL...I've got a doe with wattles (UGH) and I've been meaning to take them off ever since she was a 6 mo.old doeling. (I received her with them...not raised here!) She's 2yrs. old! Well....everytime I get ready to take them off she's either pregnant, just freshened, or will have a show in a couple weeks!! I finally just gave up and let her keep them! Now, she's a finished CH and I could care less! Horns on the other hand...I'd take them off and go from there.

    I'd also not make 3 trips to the vet and pick them all up at the same time! Besides, if something goes wrong...she's already at the vets!
    Just my opinion,
    Kaye
     
  5. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Thanks, Kaye. :) Having never gone through this before, I'm not really sure which is worse. I'm due in May, so that isn't great timing... How much will horns grow in 5 months? I do have the buck at home (he's the one that's getting disbudded, too) so I'm thinking that I'd go ahead with the disbudding... Like you said, I can breed again... not ideal, but if necessary could delay it and have June kids. The doe was born in February, so if it doesn't take and she has to wait a bit, it might be better for her... A newphew to this doe had some serious horns from a failed disbudding, and after not even 3 months, I think the new owner opted not to mess with them. I don't want a horned doe.

    Can any of the meds (pain/sedation) cause birth defect that you know of, if she does hold the breeding?
     
  6. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Any drugs given during the 1st trimester "can" cause problems. It's not like she's 2-3 months bred. No, I can't say there will be NO DEFECTS. I can't even say there will be no defects without having drugs.

    You CAN also opt not to breed her this year?? She can show as a dry yearling~if you show. I'd have to opt to get rid of the horns, over having kids from her this year.

    I have to ask why you bred her if you knew you were going to have the horns taken off?
    Kaye
     
  7. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    :yeahthat

    I'd get rid of the horns and leave her dry for this year.

    JMO,
    Sara
     
  8. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Kaye, I bred her b/c I believe I'll need the milk. (I produce tons, but yet to have a baby that can latch on properly, and would rather use goat milk than formula if it's available, and I absolutely hate pumping--very very very bad experience...) Who knows, maybe I'll be able to nurse this time, but even then, not sure if baby will be able to handle cow's milk protein (I have a child who can't) so yet another reason to have goat milk--I'll need a calcium source that won't cause baby problems. I asked the vet about breeding her, and she said that she'd do it, and thought that surely after 3 disbuddings, I'd just see scurs and we really wouldn't have to worry with it. Turns out we have full blown horns on our hands. Really couldn't tell until recently. (Someone more experienced could more than likely, but I couldn't.)

    In thinking about it, I suppose if we have kids w/defects, it won't be the end of the world. I hadn't planned on selling any kids this year, but want to grow my herd a bit first and be able to see firsthand what I'll be producing here. If it takes an extra year to do that, it will be okay.

    I haven't ventured into the showing world yet. :) With soon to be 4 children under the age of 6, I'm a little too busy to want to try too many new things just yet. :) Homeschooling and learning how to be a good goat-owner are enough for now. Maybe in a few years!
     
  9. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Just a question...

    Who the heck is doing all of these botched disbudding jobs?

    Sara
     
  10. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Thanks, Sara. So it sounds like both of you would take care of the horns, so I'm making a good choice here. If she doesn't hold this breeding, I know June kids have a harder time w/parasites, but maybe that would be worth it if I need the milk... Not ideal, and I might have to use formula for a few months, but that's better than a $150 formula bill every month for a year!
     
  11. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    I have a different take. If you may need this does' milk for YOUR baby, then I would leave the horns and have her disbudded later. I mean, if she isn't a "great" doe, then sell her later as a doe with horns, or else just disbud in September or so next year. If she kids too late, you may not have the milk when you need it (early on). At this point, she is a means to an end.

    You also might consider purchasing a doe in milk in the Spring and sell her as a late bred doe. What you save on the disbudding fee could go a long way to purchasing a nice doe. Either way, I'd make sure I had a goat milk supply lined up weeks before that baby is due.

    My vote always goes to the Bo-Binkies! :) Camille
     
  12. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I agree with Camile
     
  13. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    What's 11 days going to matter?? Either the doe has no horns, holds the preg. and no problems-human baby milk or she looses the preg. and comes into heat in 11 days and is rebred.?

    I'd still opt for the no horns.
    Kaye
     
  14. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    And I'd opt to make my priority the doe. :)

    Babies can be fed formula if necessary or better yet, buy a healthy doe in milk!

    JMO,
    Sara
     
  15. Bilrite Farms

    Bilrite Farms Guest

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    See - I knew there'd be some discussion on this :biggrin I have to second Sara's question on why there are so many with bad disbudding jobs.

    Of course, everyone has to do what is best for their situation... I'd band them if she were at my place but Kaye and Sara have a good point too... what is 11 days, really, and as Camille and Sondra said, maybe you can deal with the horns.

    Interesting discussion so far gals!
     
  16. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    All I can really say is I wouldn't have another goat here with horns to be real honest The goat or the horns would have to go. and looking at what Kaye stated 11 days big deal get the horns off. Changed my mind.
     
  17. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Not all babies do well on formula. And Billie already knows that her other child could not tolerate cows' milk.

    Myself - make sure that the doe will kid sooner than later. Why? Because human babies do not always wait for their due date. She also may not want to assist/milk/get a kid started when she is 39 weeks pregnant, so in a sense, I would want to "protect" the expectant mother as well. On the list of priorities, this doe (without horns) is down the list a ways. If the timing was different I would concur completely with Kaye (including leaving all of the critters and making one trip).

    Can you line up a healthy doe in milk for Spring purchase? With the price of formula you can easily justify the purchase of a doe that kidded in March if your doe loses this breeding.

    Lots of options - I just approach it all from the baby's and mother's point of view. Camille
     
  18. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    Okay, gals, I have a confession! I also bred the other Feb doe *just in case* this one didn't take so I'd have milk. Double my odds, you know. She's big enough, but b/c I had got some flack about not breeding both this year, I didn't divulge that info... But being so new to this, I didn't want to trust one breeding with something so important. SO, I suppose we shall see! I could have 2 does kidding in April, just one, or none. I'll know in a couple weeks. (Don't yell at me!)

    The big deal about 11 days is my due date. I don't want to be in the hospital giving birth and then having my does home kidding without me! (Of course, if my doctor doesn't get any nicer--he's not crazy about having a prior homebirth wacko patient--I might decide to stay home and we can all kid in the barn! :) ) I prefer to deliver standing up as opposed to laying down, anyway. Gravity is a great birth aid! (I'm only sort-of joking!)

    Sooo... I suppose there are some options. Formula, purchasing a doe in milk, and maybe we won't need any of those. Either way, I'll know soon and will have some time to plan. (But I'll need y'all's help if I have to buy a doe in milk!)

    As for why there are so many with bad disbudding jobs... well, I can't exactly answer that without incriminating someone who is not a member of this forum and no way to defend herself. So, I'd prefer to not answer that one publicly.

    I've just been informed that I have a chicken running loose in my house....what next?!?!
     
  19. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well I don't mean to be totally rude but, am wondering just why you bred her and then set up the appointment for disbudding which really is going to be a dehorning procedure now, not disbudding. Think for now your just going to have to dicide for yourself which you want more and go with it right or wrong. We can't help you in this. You have to do what I do is take all info in digest it and do what I want to anyway :)
     
  20. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    :rofl Unless you're a lot tougher than me, sister, those goats kidding would be the furtherest thing in my mind!! I didn't take child-bearing real well. Ummm...in fact, I think with the last one I DID utter profanities about my husband's mother and I guess he really could have filed terroristic threating charges against me! Notice I did say my last one! YEP!
    Kaye