difficulties at the milking stand

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Thermopkt, May 19, 2008.

  1. Thermopkt

    Thermopkt New Member

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    I need some ideas for a difficult milker. My FF HATES milking time. She'll go ok til about halfway through her grain and then she'll start screaming and flopping until she falls. :nooo It started with kicking and stomping, so I tried tying her back feet down. That got me to where I am now. Most morning I milk with one hand and hold the bucket with the other til she throws her fit. Then I grab her by the skin on her sides and lift til she has her back feet under her. That's all she'll do. She'll just collapse if I try to lift her all the way up. So, I milk her with her front end down and her butt sticking up. Again, she'll throw a fit after a few minutes. Repeat the procedure over and over til finally milked out. I was thinking of a sling attached to the rafters AND tying her back feet. Then she could have fits all she wants. Am I overdoing this? :really
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Does she have access to grain any other time? Like she is not a good eater on the stand so you give her grain afterwards? Sort of rewarding her for this behavior?

    So what do you do when she acts like this? I hit. Course I also spanked my children :) I slap them on the flank and scream (so the neighbors could here if they weren't 10 acres away :) NO! All my goats know that NO means pain and you never want mom to talk to you in her mean voice. I can't handle wild goats, I win in the end up it also may leave me gasping for air with my asthma. You simply have a job to do and you will do it.

    Soon the bad behavior stops, they come into the milkroom and get in the stand, eat their grain and stand to be milked, even if it is a 2 year old messing with you. Or you get a stern NO. I never have to slap them more than 2 or 3 times with the NO before they realize quickly what no means.

    Smashing down onto the milkstand, well you are milked from behind with a 5 gallon bucket under your stomach.

    Also don't let go of the teat when she is being bad, if you let her win each time she throws a fit she will continue doing it.

    But the biggy is food. Alfalfa pellets, grass hay, minerals, water and their pasture/browse. Grain is only for goats who are being milked this time of year.

    Of course I love my goats, they love me, I pet them, but not when you are working (being milked, learning to stand for showing, at shows...that's your job). Vicki
     

  3. Little Moon

    Little Moon New Member

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    I have a FF that acts very much the same while on the stand. I have put a 5 gallon bucket under her tummy while I milk. She is getting better, but we still have a ways to go. She will also run from me when I try to catch her in the pen, and when I grab her collar sometimes she just collapses on the ground. She's for sale if you know anyone that is "deserving". lol

    Anne
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Im' with Vicki on this and if all that fails she is gone, I am not abt to fight with a goat forever. my very first goat was like this and she is gone.
     
  5. CarlinsDarlin

    CarlinsDarlin Guest

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    My problem is Cinnamon doesn't want to get ON the stand. Once she's there, we have no problems, but it's like pulling teeth to get her up there. It has been a couple years since she was milked, though (no babies for a couple years), so I guess it's just a relearning process. I have asked DH to build a ramp up to the stand, though, instead of having the does just jump up there. Maybe that will help. I hope. :/
    Kathy
     
  6. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    I also am with Vicki on this.. I will not tolerate bad behavior during milk time! I have a yearling FF, that because she is a bit on the small side, is hard for me to milk. She has to stand with her legs not only wide apart, but her left leg towards me. And she doe's this without complaint.. now.
    A couple of years ago, I actually pushed a doe off the stand. Yep her head was locked in and her front end stayed up, but just her back legs going off was reason enough to get her thinking.
    Good thing I don't have children.. :rofl

    As for getting her ON the stand.. get a long leash, loop and clip it to itself so as to make a slip lead. get it around her head and loop it through the head stanction. This is so you can pull her head up while picking up her rump and getting her on the stand. I would also have the stand next to a wall so she can't go up and over. I will always give them the option the next time to get up on their own and if they don't, they are pulled up. A couple of times, I bet she will take the option to do it herself. Lots of pats & praise when she does it.
    Let us know how it goes!
     
  7. I use the no and slap method. LOL.

    I dont have the time nor the patience for a doe who wont stand still. Now a FF I'll take a bit of extra time and let her get use to the routine but a doe who's done this before I wont. There have been a few times Hannah's gotten the loud no and a slap. Not very often. Usually one NO and she's settles down and eats.

    Delilah will raise her feet up at the start of milking. But its gotten to the point where she does it a few times each side and she's done. She'll stand and let me milk. She's a FF so this is all new to her.
     
  8. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    My aged doe has trouble getting on the stand, too, but I think it's old worn out joints. We built a ramp.
     
  9. Narrow Chance

    Narrow Chance New Member

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    I start giving my yearling pre-freshening girls a bit of grain on the milk stand every now and again to get them used the the stand when they freshen.
    I'm with Vicki on the slap and yell. Can't say as I say NO exactly.. sometimes it more of starts with a B.
    One way you can make them jump on the stand.. and not necessisarily slap them.. is grab thier tail.. and pull up to make them jump. Trust me.. they will jump up.
    Repatition and the same milk stand and they will get the hang of it.
    I don't care if the doe is a national grand champion.. I will not tolerate laying down to milk.. I am NOT going to fight and try to milk them at the same time. I'm getting to old for that.
    And like Vicki and the rest have said.. work is work.. and play is play. When I work with lead training and setting up.. there is no play. Some make it hard on themselves.. and some learn real fast.
     
  10. Thermopkt

    Thermopkt New Member

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    She only and ever gets grain on the stand. No other time. Been plenty of slapping and yelling. I did rig up a sling last night and used it this AM. It helped. Made it easier for me to smack her while she's actually misbehaving. I usually let go of the teat to save the milk bucket, but she ALWAYS gets milked out. The other day, she was so bad that I actually left her collapsed and milked her out on to the floor. It was a waste of milk, but I was SO mad. I would love to get her to act normal. We're not exactly rolling in money and goats are far and few between here. But one of these days, if she keeps up, I'm gonna lose it and she's going to be dogfood. My problem is, I tend to be stubborn and I WILL win. She's a sweet heart all the rest of the time and does well on the stand as long as I don't try to milk her. I'm going to try the 5 gal bucket thing, that sounds easier than what I'm doing. :)

    Thanks all!!
     
  11. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Speak their language... bite them.

    Trust me, it works. ;)

    Sara
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Not that a few B's having flown out of my mouth, but slap/yell no, pull tail yell up...it should be simple comands like you do with a dog. I do simple ones like Stand and then this under my breath growl of 'dont even thing about it'. I wouldn't be hitting them to get them up on the milkstand, pulling the tail works so efficently, they really have no choice.

    But yes like Sara says they bite each other all the time so know what biteing means without saying anything. Pinching on the neck also works, it's close to biting without the mouth full of fur :) Vicki
     
  13. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    Ew, ek, uk! Grossity gross gross Sara! LOL!
    I am all with the slap and no, but a "slap" doesn't do it. It has to be a hard side of the fist punch. And I always have at least one hand on a teat. The older does don't even need to have thier heads locked in. They just stand there and eat - thier signal that they are done is when I let go of thier teats and say, "good girl"
     
  14. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Hey Bethany,

    When you start milking by machine and the FF are being pains in the rear you come on here and tell me what else works as well. ;) Especially when you are holding the inflations on with both hands and don't have an extra to slap or punch.

    When you've been in goats long enough you'll soon realize that some things work much better than others on certain goats. Gross? Not so much. Effective? Yes. :)

    Sara
     
  15. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    I bite too if I have no free hands :blush :lol

    Normally a smack and "Quit!" (No sounds too much like whoa, and I like to yell the same thing at all the critters, lol) I also have the EHHHHHH noise -- I don't know how to type it, but all activity stops when I do it -- works on humans too :)

    I've gotten to the point that if does are THAT bad to milk, the heck with it.....to the salebarn! If I have to feed and house you, by golly you can stand on the milk stand twice a day!

    Tracy
     
  16. Sheryl

    Sheryl New Member

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    Well geesh. I guess I am not alone in this department. I was worried that I was being mean to my critters when they get onery! I have popped them on the butt(flank) a few times when they wanted to put their foot on the bucket or spilled almost a whole bucket full. And I used to have girls that laid down. pulling the tail up works wonders! they hate their tail pulled up. I used to have a doe that I had milked three years in a row. She used to jump so high with her back end, she almost did a somersault over the milk stand once. Scared me, thought she was going to break her back. never could get her to stop....she got sold!

    And one of my biggets "B's" was one of my favorite Alpines. I had to sell her not cause she was such a "B" but cause I needed the money. I do have her daughter though.

    As a matter of fact when my DD was pregnant with my GD, when the doctor asked her if she had though of any names, she told him the baby was going to come out confused...she wouldn't know if her name was "laurie you B, or you B Laurie" he chocked on his coffee. :rofl

    Good luck with your doe.

    Sheryl
     
  17. Most of the time with wild ones on the milk stand. The slap and "no" or in my case...a WHOLE lot more colorful words, will work. But, I had one doe that it would not help. Did the biting...got blood, NOTHING different about her after that. Then I remember a lecture I went to years ago from a Professor of CO state (CSU) said, they think something painful, hurtful is going to happen that is why they go crazy. SO, go crazy with them.

    Well, lets say after a night playing cards till milking time in the morning, and just a few beers in me. She got on the stand and did her thing. Kicking, yelling, biting...the whole nine yards. I did mine thing, cussing yelling...the whole nine yards. I remembered what she said, Then I grabbed the metal trash can that has always been in the milk room and throw it up against the wall. Made all the noise I could with the thing. She just stood there wide eyed...thought I had done lost my mind, was about true. After about 30 minutes of that, she just stood there to be milked. I made sure that everything in the milk room was thrown, nothing ever touched her, so she knew it was safe in there ON the stand. Sometimes you just have to get creative, and just loss your mind at times.

    Also, if you can, tie her to something on her side with a 1/4 braided rope. Like to a bar, put the rope just in front of the udder and up over the short ribs. Then tie her TIGHT! Make sure she can not breathe hardly, that get the nerves that reach to the legs. I found this ALOT better than tieing a foot, since then they think something has ahold of them.

    Ken in MO
     
  18. coso

    coso Guest

    Oh to be a fly on the wall in Kens' barn. Better yet a fly with a video camera !!! :rofl :laughcry
     
  19. kidsngarden

    kidsngarden New Member

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    Sara,
    Whoa, I totally totally thought you were joking!
    Well, you pros know what you are doing. I'll come all repentant the day I bite a doe on the milkstand. Ever since being a hairdresser I have a thing about hair in my mouth,,,uk.
    Bethany
     
  20. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    It's really not so bad, especially if they are clipped. :rofl

    Sara