deer worm lesions?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by [email protected], Jun 27, 2008.

  1. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    Does anyone have any pictures of what a deer worm lesion looks like? Discovered what I thought was one but it could just be rubbing from the mosquitoes. So I would like to be sure.

    Also, what is the treatment you use and recommend?

    As near as I can tell, the goat is not wobbly, or hindered in it's movement. It's a buck.
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Round like cigarette burns, oozed but not bloodly. They itch and the goat will self mutilate. This was the first symptom that Amber had, then she was wobbly in the rear and was down in 24 hours. She always ate and drank although I had to bring it to her.

    Dex to bring down the swelling in the spinal cord, Banamine was really important to her because she was self mutilating anything she could reach and this really took the edge off, Naxcel and an oral sulfa...a down goat (although she never acted ill) is ripe here for opportunistic pnemonia and cocci). And a huge subq dose of Ivermectin Plus because neither Merry nor I had ever treated this before and it is how you treat protozoal mililitis in horses, which is what she thought this was in Amber. By 3 or 4 days of shots she was crawling to get away from me in the barn...she was up in about a week, she was no where normal for months...but she was able to get her 2nd leg as long as I walked her really slow. Walking faster you could tell she had a hitch in her getalong. vicki
     

  3. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    I can't figure out if this is the problem or not. I am not seeing any neurological signs and he isn't dragging his feet, or looking dumb and is not biting at himself, or itching too much either. So it doesn't sound similar. However he does have these missing patches of hair along his back ribs with somewhat calloused skin. Looked at one side and I thought he had some skin tracks, but they weren't going to his spine. I don't know wether or not we should just treat him based on these spots, or am I supposed to wait for more signs? We have bad mosquitoes at the moment so it could be that he is itching himself from them. I have a doe with patches like this too, but I can see that she is rubbing it off on the fences and she hates the bugs.

    I've moved the bucks to a better pen, since they are due for hoof care and clipping and worming ect. Will it harm him if I treated for it now, even if he doesn't have it?

    I have ivermectin 1 % right now. This still works for us. Would that work?
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yes, you just want to tripple at least the normal dosage. If you catch it before the worm sets up housekeeping in the spinal cord he won't have neuro symptoms. Vicki
     
  5. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    Jo,
    I recently had a doe with deerworm, did not think about taking picitures until after treatment.....looking back, it would have been a good teaching case.
    The lesions on my doe were raised circular bumps and "s" shaped swirls just under the skin- they were found under her collar on the front part of her shoulder (her collar hangs kinda low on her neck). I noticed her rubbing her butt at her tailhead, that is where the worst self-mutilation took place- she rubbed a big "hot spot" looking raw areaabout the size of my fist. I never gave her dex or banamine, because by the 2nd day of treatment, it was already starting to dry up. It scabbed over and the scab eventually came off. I never put anything on it. She lost hair in a patchy trail from her tailhead down along the back of the affected leg. It is just now starting to come back in.
    My treatment was, as Vicki said, Ivermectin SQ for 3 consectutive days. I also gave safeguard orally at triple the dosage for 5 consecutive days. She had neuro symptoms but never went down. She has recovered; there is the faintest stiffness in her hind leg that most people probably would not notice, but I can still see it.

    I noticed my Nubian doe has an area now on the back o one of her legs- an oozy lesion with hairloss around it.....no neuro signs, but I am thinking maybe I should treat her just in case...
     
  6. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Here is a site that I bookmarked. at the bottom is some pictures of doe that was being treated.
    http://users.1st.net/tspjael/threesprings/worm5.htm

    I don't have an opinion one way or another on the treatment.
    I used Vicki's advice, and brought my buck up from being down.
    Kaye
     
  7. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    Hi Kaye, I saw these pictures last night, too. But my goat doesn't look so bad. I wonder if this reaction is a extraordinary one?

    I am going to treat them. It's better to be safe than sorry, I think.

    Thank you all, for helping me with the dosages. I appreciate it.
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

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    Other than the same color, the lesions that Amber had were round, not those stripes. I wonder if they had been treated more agressively if they would not have gone this far. I don't think they killed the moma who then laid more larve, who then migrated out of the skin... I do know I did not catch it early with Amber. Vicki
     
  9. LMonty

    LMonty New Member

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    when I looked at the pictures, i guessed the size of the lesions was from the secondary scratching the animals were doing, not the tunnel the worm itself made. theres so much hair gone around it, and the descriptions from board members of what their animals lesions looked like, thats the only explanation that made sense to me. are they saying the lesions are from the worm itself?
     
  10. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    On my goat, the larval trails were mostly hidden under her dark hair- I had to feel around with my fingers to find them. The bumps were about the size of a small fingernail. Those lesions inthe pictures appear to from all the self-mutilation and rubbing the goat does. My doe kept rubbing her tailhead against a tree, stood over a fallen log and rocked back and forth methodically, rubbing a bare patch on her abdomen infront of her udder. Luckily I was able to diagnose her before it got the point of looking like the goat in those pictures......
     
  11. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    In that website, I believe they think the huge lesions are partly caused from a allergic reaction. Not all goats get such huge reactions from this, I guess.
     
  12. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    I wanted to give a quick update and also ask a question. The two buck are looking much better, it seems some of the inflammation is greatly reduced already. We had a frightening experience though. The first time we gave the one buck a shot, he acted a little dopey, the second time he was much more dopey, spaced out kind of. The third day (today) he went into convulsions and then laid still like he was dying. I homnestly thought he stopped breathing. We had to start slapping him and making him walk and he was like a drunken sailor, staggering. Then I got the hose and hosed him with cold water for at least ten minutes before he started to act normal. Totally different reaction than the other buck, who just screeched a little. So, was that anaphalactic (sp) shock? Should I have given epeniphrine? I have a small bottle on hand form like 5 or 6 years ago. I don't know if it's any good anymore. Should I not have continued giving the shots? I don't understand what happened with him.

    I hope I never have to do this again!
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Sorry Jo, what shots? Vicki
     
  14. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    If you're refering to Ivomec "shots"...I only gave one. The Dex I continued for 10 days, decreasing the amount given in slow increments.

    My buck only had 1 of the "trails" and that was in his loin above the flank. Almost a year later that hair is still darker on his flank than the rest of his body. ??

    Those Ivomec shots burn/sting/hurt so bad that I've had does actually "faint" for lack of a better word...others scream in pain and throw themselves onto the ground.

    Anaphlatic shock is just that...shock. If you've ever seen one wobble and crumple to the ground, foam at the mouth, and some even stop breathing, you would remember it. I will only give epi IF they stop breathing because it can increase the heart rate to get the blood pumping through out the body rather than pooling to the organs.
    Kaye
     
  15. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    My Easy Stream buck Eric, was allergic to Ivermectin and of course in the early 90's we were still giving Ivermectin subq. He would fall to the ground and scream, this from a buck who never made a sound, another squeaky voiced nubian like GE. He would also get horrible abscess at the shot site that when we opened one up to take out, we found tenticle type adhesions going out from it with it's own blood supply. My vet was shocked at the agressiveness of this. She told me to start using Ivermectin orally because most would be absorbed into the mucous membranes of his mouth anyway. I know switching to this oral route is what saved me from Ivermectin resistance way before everyone else in my area. Plus we used fecals and showed that it worked soo much better than injected. Vicki
     
  16. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    He got sub q, ivermectin for 3 days. We did the first two days and then skipped a day, then gave him the last shot. (Also got b-complex, and the safeguard.) If I have to use ivermectin, I always go the oral route. However, all that I have read has mantioned sub-q shots for deer worm, so that is what I thought I should do. Do you know if it also works orally for deer worm?

    Errr, Kaye, I'm wondering why you only gave one day/shot of the ivermectin? Did I just overdue it?

    Now, after the shot, the buck wasn't foaming at the mouth but he did go down and flat out. In fact, my hubby said he thought he had fainted. He did go into convulsions and went rolling across the ground. I have injected ivermectin before so I know it's painful, but havn't seen this before.

    He is keeping a wary distance from us now.

    Yuck, that growth thing sounds disgusting!
     
  17. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I have only shared a single dose in how we treated Amber, I am not sure why you would even go 2 or 3 days. The Ivermectin is needed because it is the only wormer that crosses the blood brain barrier and why it is so important not to use it in infant goatlings (in my opinion :) but it kills that mama worm and her larve, so why give it over and over? Vicki
     
  18. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    O.k. on reply # 4
    " My treatment was, as Vicki said, Ivermectin SQ for 3 consectutive days."

    I took this to mean that I was supposed to use it for 3 days. Is that what we mean when we say "triple the dosage" or or we supposed to use three times as much?
     
  19. birdiegirl

    birdiegirl Member

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    I gave one shot of ivermectin SQ a day for 3 days in a row. The dose I used was 1cc/30 # . ( I think the usual dose for ivermectin is 1cc/50# orally).
     
  20. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

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    I know three days of ivermectin shots is on the tennesee meat goat page, and this is also what I was told to use by some local folks here. I'm curious why you think one shot would work just as well as three? If I have to do this again, I guess I'd rather use one than three, if I can get away with it.

    Also, is it right to triple the dosage of the ivermectin?

    And, since I gave a lot to my bucks do you think his liver is going to be o.k.? Or should I be doing something for them.

    Donna, don't worry about it. I am in no way mad at you. This is my responsibility and I should have gone ahead and asked all the questions before I treated them. The buck is very vigorous (his name is Vigaro) and I'm sure we have killed off all his worms by now. :lol