Dam raising kids...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Faithful Crown Nubians, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. Will dam raising kids cause any issues with the does udder? (I'm talking about my show goats.) I have read on some sites that it could cause damage to the udder but wanted to know your experiences with it.
    My nubian buck isn't breeding the girls so on their next cycle I'll see if he will breed them, if not I'll have the pygmy breed them. I just want to get them bred so I know they'll be milking incase I decide to show next year. I was going to let them dam raise the kids. But wanted to make sure that wasn't going to cause any issues.

    Thanks!!
     
  2. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels New Member

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    CAE issues aside, you can successfully raise kids on does with no damage to the udder. Be sure you milk the doe out twice a day even though the kids are nursing. This will prevent problems with uneveness caused by kids sucking just one side, or one side more than the other. Also, do not leave triplets on the doe, take one kid and foster it on another doe or bottle it. Triplets fighting over two teats can cause cuts and bruises. I leave triplets on Boer does, but not on dairys.
    Milking them twice a day also allows you to know about mastitis earlier than just leaving them to dam-raise without supervision.
     

  3. Thanks for replying! I'm glad I can dam raise the kids.
     
  4. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    We dam raised with our best doe's second kidding. Her udder is still fabulous at age 5...and this was with two very agressive bucklings on her for almost 6 months.
     
  5. Gabe

    Gabe New Member

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    I'm planning to dam raise the meat buckling next year. No need to put all the time into them for bottle feeding. ;)
     
  6. Bella Star

    Bella Star New Member

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    I dam raise my milk does and Boers but if they have a aggressive kid,the kid's are weaned quick.

    Do your Lab blood work for CAE tho as if the doe is CAE+ then if the kid nurses mama doe the kid will always ALWAYS be CAE+ , thats why most here pull and feed kids pasteurised milk.
     
  7. My purebreds will be raised on CAE Prevention. I see alot of buyers want them raised on CAE Prevention, reguardless whether the doe is negative or positive.

    My does SHOULD be neg. They have never been around a positive doe, the dams of both does were neg, and one of my does was raised on CAE Prevention.

    Anyways...They are being bred to a pygmy (my buck.) becaue my nubian buck wont breed them. I dont know if something is wrong with him or if he's just slow maturing.
    SO that is the reason why I wanted to know if the udders would have any damage from dam raising. I really dont want to go through alot of work bottle feeding kids just to end up putting them in the freezer or selling them for meat. Too much work. lol
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    It's just as much work to dam raise and take care of udders. You are still going to go through the milking routine once or twice a day. You will be spending time taming kids, getting them out of feeders, chasing them to give meds, trim feet etc... which is the same time you would spend lambaring kids. And they eventually wean and you still have to milk until show season is over. So how is it going to save you any time?

    For myself, when you start dam raising it's time to cull down to tiny again. Vicki
     
  9. We'll have to agree to disagree.

    For me, dam raising will save time and work.
     
  10. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Though dam raising does save me time and work, I have noticed one big difference in my does who did not raise their kids or had them pulled at a fairly young age. This is consistancy and length of production. It is now winter here where I live and most of my does are bred. Production is going down. Miracle, who has always been allowed to raise her kids has basically no milk, so I began drying her up altogether today. Melia, who also has raised her kids is way down in production. Chelsea is a yearling FF, who doe to a prolapse when she delivered, did not raise her kid. She is still milking as well as when she was a month fresh, and she and Miracle were bred the same week. Evette, who also did not raise her kids, is still milking well, too. These two does also have nicer udders and teats than the does who raised their kids. I get the feeling that my does who raise kids will produce well when there is a constant demand for their milk and will begin to dry up when backed down to twice a day milking. My does who are trained to milk well twice a day from the get go continue to do so into later lactation.
     
  11. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels New Member

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    I dam-raise my meat bucklings. This way, I have no qualms when it comes to butchering them. ;) No taming involved, just a well-placed bullet.
     
  12. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    It is intriguing to me to read that your production was down with the damraising does. My theory was that the production would be UP due to increased hormones from the doe being with her kids. I may be reading wayyy too much into the thought of any similarity, but I correlated the fact that when a human mother is pumping her production tends to drop due to the fact that the hormones triggered by holding and nursing her baby are absent.
     
  13. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    The production is way up when the kids are still fairly young and nursing often. When I show these does in July and early August, their udders are more full than the ones not raising their kids. I think as the kids grow older, the does don't allow them to nurse as much and their production decreases over time without my noticing it. If I pull the kids off in fall, to either sell at meat market or to put in with the bucks, the does just are not making as much milk as the does who don't raise their kids. Some of them also try to "wean" me when I milk them, even if I have been milking them along with their kids nursing. This is really the first year I've noticed this, as in the past, all the does have had at least on kid left one them for at least 3-4 months, with the exception of a couple who have kidded early as FF's and never really made much milk that first year. What I'm especially aware of this year is the lactation pattern of a couple of does who had doelings their first freshening and raised them until they chose to wean their kids. The kids drank enough I only had to milk them once a day. This year, I pulled the twin wethers off one of them to sell the end of summer and have been milking her twice a day. Her production dropped off some ongoing after I pulled the kids and dropped sharply almost as soon as she conceived this fall. She's healthy and content, she just isn't making much milk. I think she developed a shorter lactation period by being allowed last year to choose when she wanted to dry up.
     
  14. Bella Star

    Bella Star New Member

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    When I first started with goat rearing, I lost babies due to bloat,navel ill and other unknown problems when I pulled the kids and bottle fed ... Now that I dam raise,I have never lost a kid or had any of the problems as before with dam raised IF the dam is a good mother and has milk.
    To me it's just the natural way to rear kids. and thats only with Blood tested disease free stock.
     
  15. Katarina

    Katarina New Member

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    "I think as the kids grow older, the does don't allow them to nurse as much and their production decreases over time without my noticing it."

    Do you milk the moms out twice daily while they are nursing kids?
     
  16. Good Goats

    Good Goats New Member

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    Hmm. . . I am not sure what I am going to do this year (bottle or dam raise). Last kidding season I kind of did half and half. Our first doe due is wild, and I mean, WILD!! So I am going to bottle raise her kid(s) since her kids are going to be kept either by me or they will go to another breeder who wants friendly goats. She's due in about 2 1/2 weeks. I will still have to bring her to the stand and milk her though for the kids, and oh boy, that is going to be one big fiasco by itself :D!!
    I "caught" her today and felt her tail and it is pretty loose, she has NO udder at all though. But her dam (who another breed has) gets no udder until right after she kids. Is this pretty common? Non of my does have done this so far - they have all got at least some kind of an udder before they kid. So anyway, sorry for rambling on.

    Suriyah
     
  17. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Katie: I don't usually milk all the does who are raising two kids, unless they are obviously making more than their kids are eating, such as the first couple of weeks fresh, or if I'm needing milk for the bottle babies. I have a job off the farm and this is a good part of the reason I let most dams raise their kids. As the kids grow older, I pull wethers off the does and send them to market or sell kids to people in the area. This gives me enough milk for our family. By late spring or early summer, I have enough does I milk twice a day that I have milk for customers.
     
  18. ozark_jewels

    ozark_jewels New Member

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    If the does are milked twice a day *and* are feeding kids, it shouldn't affect their production at all...unless it would make them produce more! But yes, if the kids alone are taking milk, the doe will certainly adjust her milk to their needs.
     
  19. Bella Star

    Bella Star New Member

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    I start milking dam ,when kids are 1 mo. old IF dam has 2 aggressive kids but if dam has lots of milk I start milking sooner at 1X a day,mornings and I don't get her all the way milked out but leave some milk for kids and then the kids stay with mama doe till night and then I separate them for morning milking BUT I don't milk for customers so I don't need as much milk for family.
     
  20. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    "But yes, if the kids alone are taking milk, the doe will certainly adjust her milk to their needs."

    That is what I have been thinking--that the hormones will encourage a higher milk production but that the body will be so intune with the needs of her babies that left to follow their decreasing need as they take solids, her production will likely drop as well, also. This is why even when we dam raise we also milk twice a day. For us the only real reduction in work comes in that we arent pasteurizing milk for babies or scrubbing out the lambar.