Coughs & fever (pneumonia?) & Allergic Rxn

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Hazels Mom, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Hazels Mom

    Hazels Mom New Member

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    Hi! My daughter got us into dairy goats three years ago. We're hooked. I have two situations I want to bounce off members, though.

    First: Our Nubian goats are tested routinely for CAE, CL, Brucellosis, Toxiplasmosis, Johnes and Q fever. They are G6S normal by testing and parentage. We have free-choice minerals (Sweetlix Meatmaker) and baking soda. We do milk testing through both DHIA and an in-state laboratory which tests for bacterial presence, and we do the CMT. Because we had WAY TOO MUCH coughing last winter (missed a show because we were not going to bring coughing goats), we have vaccinated against Pasteurella and recently did a first round of Super Poly Bac B and we routinely vaccinate and booster against CD&T. We aggressively vaccinate pregnant does in the later stages of their pregnancy, to up their antibody production in colostrum.

    About a week ago, everyone was hit with the Multi-Min at the 1cc/100 pound dose.

    Situation #1: Reaction to Tetanus Anti-toxin. - Today we went to castrate a Nubian buckling we gave to a wonderful family that takes incredible care of their animals. We do band castration and we went and banded the boy, and all went well with the castration. We gave 2mL of the Tetanus Antitoxin (Equine origin) and 0.4 cc of banamine. I had not packed our epipineprine). About twenty minutes afterwards, the buckling's ears swelled all up. We put a call into our friend and she suggested that we try Children's benadryl - we gave 5 cc, and the swelling on the bottom half of the ears went down, and we gave another 2cc, and a little more went down. The young lady who owns the goat called me about four hours later, said the goat was running around, ate, and acting well, and should she give more benadrl - I said not as long as he's acting better than he was when we were there. Question 1: Why the heck isn't it advertised all over, that goats can have these horrible reactions to Tetanus Antitoxin??!? I had always read that when you castrate, you give a shot of this. Never again, as far as I am concerned. I welcome comments/critiques.

    Situation #2: Two days ago we noticed some coughing in the buck pen - we have two bucks and a wether in there, and the pen is separate from the girl pen. We took temps. They were just slightly above 'control' temps in the girl pen, which we took first. Also, temperatures had more to do with body bulk, and it was cooling evening, so we figured that if the big, hairy older buck was a little higher than 3 year old hairy wether, who was a little higher than 1 year old buck, that made sense, given the relative bulk they had in cooling off in the evening. Also, the boys spend more time in the sun than the girls. Everyone was eating lots and drinking and super-active (racing to the fence to see if we had treats, for example), so we just kept an eye and an ear open.

    Been the same yesterday and this morning - hungry, happy goats. willing to race the fence for goodies. Tonight, we got home after the entire allergic-wether debacle, and when I was feeding, there were only two boys at the feeder -the 3 year old wether was standing by himself by a far fence. I went in and he was willing to follow me to the hay feeder, and he even took a few bites to do me a big favor, but ... Not normal. The other two boys were eating. Everyone still coughing. Juicy coughs - not the dry hacking we listened to all winter. Really juicy-sounding, snot-slinging kind of productive coughs, but without much snot-slinging. The only snot we've seen was a couple days ago on the 1 year old buck, and that snot was clear. I should mention that the 1 year old buck was at a show over the June 1st/2nd weekend. He stayed in the trailer and was only out for the buck show part, but lots of folks did come admire him.

    So after I got done feeding everyone else, we went out to take temperatures.
    1 year old buck, about 150 pounds - 101.8ish. Took twice.
    3 year old wether - 105ish Took twice.
    3 year old buck - 104.8 once and 105 once.

    We have no reason to question the validity of the new thermometer. The big buck actually felt really warm to the touch.

    Worried about pneumonia, we hit all three boys with Nuflor at 6cc/100#.

    I hit all of them with Banamine 1cc/100#

    We also dosed them with Dimetapp Children's Cold & Allergy - Antihistimine & Nasal Decongestant as per the Onion Creek Ranch suggestion at 6cc/100#. I can't find the expectorant I thought I had.

    I am reading that some folks are suggesting that we also BoSe, and we can absolutely do the Fortified Vit B.

    Question 2: Should we hit with BoSe, even though we hit with MultiMin a week ago? I do not want to OD on Selenium.

    Question 3: Other than the Fortified Vit B, what else can we do for these boys?

    Thanks.

    Wendy
     
  2. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    It sounds like you're doing all the right things, Wendy.

    If it were me, since you just gave them the MultiMin, I'd skip the BoSe, but would give the Fortified B. It certainly won't hurt and may help that guy's appetite.

    Are you going to continue with the Nuflor for a few days?
     

  3. swgoats

    swgoats Active Member

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    They can have a reaction to absolutely anything you give them. That's why you never inject anything without epi on hand. I had a goat react once to a vitamin injection. Dropped to the ground, rapid breathing, screaming, pale eyelids - happened a few minutes after the injection.
     
  4. Hazels Mom

    Hazels Mom New Member

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    Thank you, MF-Alpines and swgoats - appreciate the replies.

    This morning, the two bucks were eating fine, the younger one was cudding when I went out, but the wether was not eating - just standing all puffy-coated, and he finally walked over to stand with his buddies while they ate, but he did not eat.

    I was going to hit the two ones that had the very high fevers, again with Nuflor - not sure if I should stick with the very high dose we gave last night, or drop to the 3cc/100# that I have seen.

    We have epi on hand, and if we do a big round of vaccinations, I have had a syringe filled with it on hand. I think if the goat went down, however, after a vitamin injection, my heart would just stop on the spot. Nuts!

    Thanks.

    Wendy
     
  5. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    Could it be acidosis? I'd try some Mylanta, just in case.
     
  6. Hazels Mom

    Hazels Mom New Member

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    Update 6/13 and 14

    So yesterday when I went out at 5:30AM, the wether was miserable-looking - puffy and standing disinterested alone like I posted. When I went out at 8:30AM, later that morning, armed with my arsenal of drenchers and syringes and medicines, the same goat was smooth-coated and eating and alert and busy. Somewhere in that 3 hours, he turned a corner. :D:D:D

    Everyone's temperature has dropped dramatically, back into the normal or nearly-there range. We did another Nuflor shot at 3cc/100# yesterday evening, hit with the children's cold medicine (antihistimine and decongestant) and added an expectorant (guaifenesin, usp) which we dosed at 4mL per goat. Last night the snots were really thick and white and obviously annoying to the goats. Today, there was less coughing, and the big buck didn't sound like he was almost purring when he breathed. He was much drier-nosed and fought much more heartily to NOT get the oral medications. :rolleyes: The younger buck's temp was 101ish, and the other two were in the 102-103 range, so we have kept up the banamine in the two older boys, and done the Vitamin B.

    I am heartened to see such a dramatic improvement. This thing happened VERY fast - I visit with the boys a lot, because I really like them, so it's not like they are ignored and neglected. That cough came in really quick, and really hard. I am so happy to see that we have seen such a super response to the antibiotics and (perhaps) the other medications. Everyone is eating and battling to be the goat that gets to come out of the pen and be messed with, and battling NOT to go back into the pen.

    We are continuing the monitor temperatures AM and PM, and I think we'll keep up the oral meds and the Nuflor for another three days at least. Hopefully we just did the last of the banamine.

    Thank you, that responded, for your help. :) Further comments are still welcome, if someone had a brilliant idea. And I did try feeding them garlic, and all of them thought I was crazy. They are obviously NOT Italian goats, without the supreme appreciation for wonderful garlic as a food item. ;)

    Wendy
     
  7. tlcnubians

    tlcnubians New Member

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    Wendy - So glad to hear that the boys are doing better. I know it's quite worrisome when any member of the goat family isn't feeling well. Please don't quit giving tetanus antitoxin just because this one wether had a bad reaction to it. Suffering and dying from tetanus is a much worse fate to wish upon a goat than a treatable allergic reaction. Interesting use of human medications (Dimetapp, etc). I've never given oral expectorants to a goat in all my years of raising them. Our treatment of choice is Excenel (sub-q) and Banamine (either oral or IM). I will put Vicks Vapor Rub or Vet RX up their noses, but that's about it. And we do vaccinate with the Pasteurella Haemolytica vaccine and use the Vision CDT vaccine which is supposed to have a much better adjuvant in it than the Bar-Vac or other, less costly, CD&T vaccines. Caroline
     
  8. dragonlair

    dragonlair Active Member

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    I have been vaccinating goats for 30+ years for CDT and Rabies and never had a reaction to the shots. I always have Epi on hand. Probably if I didn't, Murphys law would kick in and I would have a reaction or two.

    Glad your boys are doing better.

    I have several coughing goats but they are coughing because of the weather. Wet and miserable to dry and dusty. The hay is becoming dusty also, that's when they really started coughing.