congested udders?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Sunny Daze, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. Sunny Daze

    Sunny Daze New Member

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    I did a search and have read previous posts on congested udders...and I think maybe thats what the problem is. I have 3 does who freshened in the last couple of weeks (one ff, two 2nd). They are all CAE neg. I pulled their kids last night, and milked them all out this morning (as of this point kids have been on them 24/7). All their udders were VERY full, tight, and hard. Once I got some of the pressure relieved, I was able to milk out quite a bit and udders did soften a lot, but their was still a lot of udder left even after I really couldn't milk out much more. This is mostly in the rear udder. They weren't sore, milk was fine. The last group of does to freshen (in late Nov-Dec) didn't have this at all. Their udders milked down all the way. I was reading on the other posts too high protein sometimes leads to this? My feed program has been the same for both groups of does...? I did massage their udders a bit..I guess I will see if I do any better next milking. Is it most likely due to the change having the kids pulled all night? Or maybe they just aren't letting down all the way? Or udder congestion? It is totally even, both sides..
     
  2. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I notice you raise two breeds of goats. Are these two groups the same breed? I notice with my goats that some of their udders milk down more than others. Some goats have meatier udders and it seems to run in families. There is also the distinct possibility that they are holding back some of their milk for their kids. Often, if I bump their udders in a similar way kids do when they are nursing, the does will let down more milk.
    Kathie
     

  3. Sunny Daze

    Sunny Daze New Member

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    they are all nigies...i am thinking maybe they just aren't letting all down. I guess I will see if it gets any better. 2 of them are 2nd fresheners and didn't have this problem last time...hhmm
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    The next time you do this, go check their udder after the kids have been back on them and nursing. Are the kids getting emptier udder than you are? Is it softer?

    There are tons of factors between two groups of goats. Age. Huge is young first fresheners and older first fresheners, too much fat simply sets you up for more meat in the udder. My girls freshen so young they never have time to fatten their udder, when dried and kidding like they are at 2 years old and second fresheners, they have zero udder right now, mature obviously milked teats, but they milk down to nothing.

    Plus sacked feeds and stored hay are extremely different, less protein, less mineral of course...the change from wet molassas to more dried molassas and also oils....lots of does will balk at feed with linseed oil in it and it doesn't have to be labeled anything more than veggy oil.

    So make sure your comparisons are really the same. Vicki
     
  5. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    If possible, I would like to hear just a bit about this fat in the udder.....so pardon me if I stray a bit.

    Does the udder build up fat quicker than the rest of the body, or does it go hand in hand with the rest of the doe. ? Once this fat has set in the udder, how hard is it to get rid of ?
    The reason that I ask, is that I have seen in the past doe's that were not all that fat body wise, but seemed to still have a lot of fat in the udder.
    I know in a lot of women that go on diets, the "top" starts to be a place where fat is lost the most and the quickest it seems.

    Well, I can see that I just opened a can of worms here.....but I'm serious.
    BTW- I ain't trying to compare a woman to a goat either. :peepwall

    Whim
     
  6. Rose

    Rose New Member

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    I had the same 'problem' after my children were born. It goes away after a week or so.
    :D
     
  7. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    By the time a goat has a fat roll at point of elbow she is packed with interior fat, like leaf fat in pigs. And just like with humans you can't spot reduce. You can build muscle under the fat but you can't workout and take off thigh fat before breast fat, stomach fat etc...come off. So it would take alot of starving for a doe to take fat deposits out of her udder. Like Tim's says you can feel edema or congestion. Your finger leaves an impression in the skin. A meaty udder doesn't. Vicki
     
  8. Fat in the udder will hardly ever come out of an animal. That is the last place that fat is placed, if you look at steers of wethers. When the cod is full and plumb then they are at the max fat level. Then they will just adding fat on top of fat.

    Most of the time with fatty udders in dairy animals what has happened is that there is to many carbs in the diet and not enough Protien to make the muscle mass bigger. There is a fine line that one has to walk when growing out replacements on keeping them in condintion and just having fat animals. If you look at the big time show people they excerise the young stock ALOT more than anything else. That is to keep the muscles in condintion and keeping the fat off their backs.

    ken
     
  9. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Now I understand all that but how or why would I have one doe who has mass of some sort whay I would call fat in her udder she milks over a gal a day (Mini LaMancha) and has never been fat ever. Only doe on the place like this and her mother didn't have this. You milk her out and she still has quite an udder on her.
     
  10. Sondra,

    Are you sure that it is fat in the udder?

    There are ALOT of things other than fat in the udder that would be a soft mass. To me with a goat that milks that much its the mammary tissue that you would be looking at. Most high producing animals will not "rag" down like a lower producing animal. Since the mammary is producing alot of milk more cells have to be active. Take a look at the highest producing doe in the herd...then look at the lowest in the herd, before and after milking. Most of the time th lower producing animal will be "ragged" down more than the higher one. Also, with a high producing animal they will have what is called "milk edema". That is just where milk has busted the cell walls of the udder and milk is just kinda of floating out in the udder. That is VERY common at larger shows where people are trying to get the udder full. That is one reason ADGA has milk outs. With dairy cattle...no such thing...more milk the better.

    ken
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Could be as she is one of the best MM milkers here I just am not experienced enough to know what is fat and what is something else Her mom a full blood LaMancha was over a two gal milker per day but her udder attachments were ruined prior to me getting her. So I am just happy that this gal's udder is well attached and this will be her 4 th freshening coming up. Still milking her right now.
     
  12. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    I really appreciate the response on this subject. For at least me here, it has come time to learn more about the udder and the way we can do things to help keep it healthy and productive.

    I'm gonna assume that "much" fat in the udder will take up room that is needed for milk reservoir, thus decreasing a doe's milk production ?
    Do these fat deposits hamper the transfer/making of milk from the mammory glands ?

    and last , but not least....How much weight shound be given to this "fat udder condition" when buying or culling doe's ?.....or should this be even considered as being a little faulty at all ?

    Thanks so much...........Whim
     
  13. Sunny Daze

    Sunny Daze New Member

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    Well, the kids are pulled for good, all on a bottle now so I can't really check....but I know I have seen their udders down more than i can get them when kids were on them. I think they are getting a little bit softer, and I am able to get a decent amount (3 cups/milking/per doe..nigerian dwarfs) although when I can't get anything else out they still look like they have a full udder (although definitely softer)! I am thinking it is a combination of them still holding back some for the kids (b/c I am pretty sure there is more milk than i am getting), and a lot of mammary tissue...for two of them this is their second freshening so perhaps that is why they have more mammary tissue than last time? I don't think it is fat...but maybe...i guess i'll see how it goes
     
  14. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Most high producing animals will not "rag" down like a lower producing animal.
    .............................

    Ken you just have to stop talking ugly about my girls!!! :) vicki
     
  15. OH Vicki....I am not talking ugly about your girls. But, IF you want me to make my normal nubian cracks I will. :)

    Fat in the udder will decrease the volume on milk in the udder....yes. The fat will take away from the total volume of milk much more than people think. A fat udder is something that I just will not deal with anymore. Most are HARD milkers and lose attachment faster than others.

    With the amount of "cull animal" I would rate that as pretty high. That is if you are wanting milk out of them. Fat in the udder is HARD to manage. Once the fat start to deposit there it is next to impossable to get the fat out of there. Then you have to deal with scaring and all that jazz. Becuase the fat is not deposited in the outside of the udder....it is mixed in the udder tissue. Its like marbling of a udder. Once it goes in...its hard to get back out.

    I know some people that have had fatty udders and got the fat out of them. But, for about 2 years the animal was next to death on a diet, and then most did not freshen the 2nd year also. That is a game one has to decide if they want to play. If show wins are the most important thing or a healthy animal is what you want.

    ken
     
  16. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    :biggrin Thanks ya'll......I suspect this has been a good learning opportunity for more than just me.

    Whim