Colostrum and Milk out of First Freshners

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Daniel Babcock, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    I have two questions relative to the upcoming kidding season.

    1- In February I will be driving up to North Western Washington to pick up some fantastic LaMancha kids. I have been researching their lines for the the last 4 months and cant tell you how excited I am to add them as foundation stock to my herd! These kids will be bottle babies. Whereas I do not have any goats freshening till March 2and, I am wondering what my options are, for keeping the kids milk fed. Obviously the best would be to find goatmilk. However I do not know how feasible this is whereas there are no dairy goat owners within close proximity to me.

    2- All of my bred does are first fresheners. I understand that the does that give the best colostrum are the older does. Will my ff does have en ought colostrum for me to milk out and feed to their kids. I have one doe whose mother has kidded in successive years 3, 4, 5, 4 and 5 kids.


    Those of you who sell bottle babies, what do you teach your buyers about feedig the kids? To those buyers without a goat in milk what do they do? (The answers to this question will help me determine if I will sell bottle babies, as well as what to do with the ones I am buying)

    Thanks so much for all of your help!
     
  2. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    The milk question is easy, I use whole cow milk from the grocers if I need to and recommend it to anyone purchasing a kid from me that doesn't have access to GM. I am very adamant about purchasers not using replacers as I've known too many people who have lost kids this way.
    If all you have is first fresheners kidding, then I would just make sure they are vaccinated appropriately prior to kidding (in Goatkeeping 101) and make sure that your kidding area is super clean. All my FF's have always had enough colostrum for the kids, your just going to have to do a lot of pasteurizing if the births are all spread out.
    Good luck!!
     

  3. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Stacy the "whole" cow milk you recommend is that the Viamin D milk I pick up as opposed to 1% or 2%. I guess I am grocery illiterate.

    HOLY COW at $2.50/gallon (grocery store price) and each kid eating 80 ounces each day for 84 days (12 weeks) that is 52.5 gallons of milk that is $131.25 per kid in store milk. There has got to be a better way!

    If I was to purchase raw milk from a Cow dairy, would I need to pasteurize it?
     
  4. I use whole cow milk if goats milk isn't available. When I sold bottle babies, I told the next owner that if they couldn't get goat milk to feed cows milk. I told them how, many people had sick or dead kids when using milk replacers.

    Goodluck!
     
  5. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    First of all, you don't need to feed 80 oz./day. At first, they are not eating that much, and you slowly increase the milk.

    We generally feed 64 oz./day up to the 12 weeks. I believe someone on here feeds 48 oz./day for 8 weeks. But they have a special grain/management system in place as well. Hopefully they pipe in here.

    While the cost of the milk is expensive, it is actually less than anything else on the market and better for your goats. I am guessing you are getting some pretty nice animals so you will just have to tell yourself that this is the cost of raising some nice goats and developing your herd. Another thought would be to purchase a doe in milk - perhaps from the same seller - at the same time. With the milk she saves you, she will have paid for herself.

    Camille
     
  6. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    Yep, it's the Vitamin D fortified Whole milk. Purchasing whole,raw milk from a dairy can be chancy. You need to make sure that the herd is healthy and has no health issues that can be passed to your kids, likes Johnes (sp?) and some others I can't seem to recall at the moment.
    Camille makes a good point there. What is your herd health worth to you? Can you get a CAE neg goat in milk to supplement? & most kids don't go to 80oz right off the bat, a lot of people only do three feedings a day, like me, I have to work and can't take 'em all with me. And hopefully, you'll sell some before you get to that point, and then someone else will be feeding them.. the nice thing about bottle babies! Here's the baby and here's the bottle!
     
  7. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Thanks for the input. What you are saying is that there are diseases transferable from cows to goats? If I were to buy raw cows milk and pasteurize it myself, wouldn't that be as good as the whole milk at the store and perhaps more economical? I know a couple of Grade A dairy farmers.

    Ideally I would like to buy a goat in milk instead of or in addition to the doeling(s) that I will be purchasing. Much of that will depend on what the breeder decides to sell after freshening. I just want to be prepared.
     
  8. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Daniel - something else you might think about is harvesting the male LaManchas that your does throw. It will ease up your milk demands and give you a lot more space for your valuable doelings. If the minis have a "pet market" you might try to sell those early, otherwise, harvest the majority of them as well.
     
  9. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Camille by harvesting do you mean euthanizing or killing the buck kids?
     
  10. KingsCoGoatGuy

    KingsCoGoatGuy New Member

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    I have tried in the past to sell extra wethers through ads, but I always end up with lookers who waste my time typing 20 emails to them about what they will need for them. They have always ended up with the last email "OH I DID NOT KNOW THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE BOTTLE FEED." Really??? :mad I now keep a waiting list of people wanting pets and only contact them if no one can handle more meat kids. I pefer to see wethers go for meat instead of people wanting a bottle kid because their kids or wife says, "Hubby, look at the cute baby goats, we need one." I was lucky to find 2 wethers a home, gave 2 weaned Alpine wethers away with a buck to keep him happy. They were only 2 1/2 months old but were on hay & grain mostly so off they went.
    This year I have a fellow breeder who wants my kids to raise for meat. I will keep them for 2 weeks until his mature does are done freshening out and then will trade kids for breedings in the fall.

    With my kids if they are leaving before weaning all come up a sheet I typed up with my feeding times & amounts on them. Also a daily, weeky, monthly, & yearly check list to due. I covered everything and those kids turned out great. I now have to go back and change it for the lambbar systems I am using this year. (Also I gave them a bottle & nipple with them. The package was $60 for 2 Nubian wethers at 2 weeks of age., 2 nipples and glass bottles.)
     
  11. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    For those that harvest their unsold bucks at birth, what do you do with them?
     
  12. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    This may be politically incorrect (and shock a few people), but by harvest, I mean butcher them at birth and feed to your dogs the next day.

    No waste - they are excellent raw food for your dogs. Leave all parts intact for the dogs. Amazing nutrition for them.

    Since the majority of your goats are FF, you won't have as great a demand for bucklings off of them. Maybe keep one or two from your best/most promising for yourself or simple sale (someone out there may need a nice buckling for next fall, or maybe unrelated to one of your does).

    If you think that there is a pet market for your mini-mancha wethers, (and I am assuming that mini-manchas are super cute and so may be in good demand, especially as they will have dairy personalities without the larger size) then I would try to pre-sell them and require a deposit. Otherwise, they will feed the dogs too. Keep them warm and comfortable until you are ready to harvest - they won't be starving in the first 2-3 hours, so if you need to finish with the doe and her doelings - milking, feeding, cleaning up - before the next task, then just keep them under a heat lamp until you get to them. You will also save/have more colostrum for a doe that has too many multiples, perhaps.

    For many, the cost of feeding (in your case, $$ directly out of your pocket for milk) and the additional work and space just doesn't make the "pet" sale thing work on paper. However, some folks have just a few, enjoy raising all of the kids, and don't mind losing a little money on the pet animals. To each his own. To me, an additional benefit of this approach is that you won't have to run around buying milk from a dairy - you will have goats' milk in your own backyard available for your valuable kids and new additions. And you know the health of the animals that that milk is coming from!
     
  13. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    I hear they're pretty yummy roasted like rabbit :biggrin
     
  14. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Camille- Not a real shock! You cant run a farm or hobby farm and not be cognizant of issues like this.

    However, it makes more sense for me Vicki's method:

    Take two five gallon buckets of water. After identifying the kid as a buck, pick it up by the hind legs and put it head first into one of the buckets full of water. Then place the other bucket on top. This may seem inhumane but makes the most sense of any of the methods to me.

    If it is completed before the buck takes its first breath, the buck is already in a sedated state from the birthing process. In my naive opinion there is no need to warm up and bring to to life a kid just to euthanize them a few hours later.

    Do you find any problems feeding them to the dogs. I would not want them to associate the smell look of goats with food. Would it be better to cut them up?
     
  15. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Daniel with you purchasing several kids at once, perhaps the breeder would have a liter of colostrum you could purchase? Take home and heat treat if she doesn't do it for you and then feed your own colostrum mixed with this purchased colostrum to all your doe kids you are keeping.

    Now with raw feeding so popular we are just killing and grinding kids, and rabbits. Selling the raw ground meat, or the butchered meat and raw meaty bones (use a band saw) you could pay for the extra milk you need to raise the doelings you are purchasing. Everything in the beginning is such a juggling act, it does get alot easier.

    I give everyone a copy of from birth until kidding...just copy it out and make it your own. If they are picking up a kid and they don't have access to goatmilk I slowly mix and start the kid onto grocery store milk myself. Vicki
     
  16. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Daniel,

    The method doesn't matter, as long as it is humane.

    We feed our Great Pyrenees this and they have never looked on a kid, newborn or otherwise, as "food" because of it. But it is why I suggest letting the meat wait a day, so that it isn't so "fresh". Probable not a problem for the dogs, but this way you can feel that you were prudent, in that regard.

    We generally cut them up as they are a bit more than 1 dog needs to eat and I don't want leftover body parts hanging around. Customers and such just might be shocked....

    Oh, and double-double check the sex - sometimes in the heat of the moment people think they had a doe and it was a buck and vice versa. Not a mistake that any of us wants to make!
     
  17. mamatomany

    mamatomany New Member

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    Can you purchase these Lamancha's when they are weaned? Maybe pay her extra or something? Your spending money on milk so why not pay her?
     
  18. ChristinaF.

    ChristinaF. Guest

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    Just another thought here...not quite on topic, but relevant. There are groups of Mong and Thia people in most large cities in the U.S. who highly prize young goat meat. If you have a larger city near you perhaps you could tap into that market with your wethers. I am 21/2 hours from Minneapolis and I have a Thai guy who wants all the wethers I have and he will come pick them up and pay $75 each for them. They especially prize Nubian meat. I don't know, just something to think about. Maybe you could advertise them in the city paper or something. It may be easier for some of us who might not feel they couldn't quite bring themselves to harvest them when they are so new and cute.

    Christina
     
  19. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock Member

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    Linda- I would love to wait until after they are weaned, however it is this breeders policy to sell them as bottle babies.

    These kids I have a deposit on are in pretty high demand If I don't pick them up they will go to the next deposit holder.

    Camille- it seems pretty straight forward, but is there a foolproof way to check the gender? It would be horrible to make a mistake! Also do you skin the carcases and feed it in pieces

    My wife does not love the idea of harvesting any of our 'precious' goats so I will do my best to presale the bucks as wethered pets or as pack goats. My challenge is, being new I have no former customers or name (yet).

    Christina- Great Idea in Utah we have a free on-line classified list much like a Craig's list but used more here. I will advertise there and see if I can find someone. How old are the wethers when this gentleman who pays you $75 each picks them up.
     
  20. ChristinaF.

    ChristinaF. Guest

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    Yes, that's how I found the Thai guy... by advertising on a list like Craigs list! He will take them at any age from super young till a yearling. They don't care for them if they are more than a year old.

    Christina