Cocci Treatment and Fecal Sampling

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by MF-Alpines, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    When can I fecal after cocci treatment to see if it worked or not? Today is Day 5 of Di-Methox 40% at 1cc/5 lbs. I ran a fecal and in one square I counted 95 and the other 87.

    It is definitely an improvement as I at least had the patience to count them, but I do not know when the appropriate time to fecal should be in order to know if the treatment worked.
     

  2. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    If it were me and I had the equipment, I would fecal at 24hrs and then every few days just to see what shows up, for a reference for the future. I don't have a microscope right now but wish I did.
     
  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Sulfas (I don't use sulfas to know) should give you a quite dramatic kill of occysts on slide, like worming and doing a fecal at 24 hours. Unlike Corid which can scare the crap out of you because all it does is stop the harmful lifecycle, leaving all lifecycles for you to see on fecal (not being able to tell one from the other). If I didn't see quite dramatic decreases every 24 hours after their sulfa dosages, I would be alarmed. I also wouldn't be quitting at 5 days of your sulfa, unless I did see a fairly clean slide. Vicki
     
  4. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    Good idea, Michelle.

    Thanks, Vicki. Do you recommend I stay at the 1cc/5 lbs past Day 5 or should I/can I cut it to 1cc/10 lbs? What is "fairly clean" when it comes to cocci? What is the highest number that is acceptable?
     
  5. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    You should have nothing on slides when you are treating with a sulfa. You are treating so you can't use prevention, you may have to go a full 21 days on a sulfa to get a clear fecal. Why I use prevention, so I don't have to treat or guess.
     
  6. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    Well, for the record in case anyone new is reading this thread and based on your comment "why I use prevention"......I DID USE PREVENTION!

    I started Corid at 3 weeks of age, dosages based on protocol in GK101. I'd have to look back, but at 4 weeks or so, diarrhea. Finally got stools firm enough for a fecal and there were cocci everywhere, so many they were bumping up against each other. Started TREATMENT with Di-Methox, but at Day 3, switched to Baycox. Ran another fecal and, while there were less, there was still too many to count. Tried Baycox again, to no avail. Now back to Di-Methox. Less on yesterday's fecal, but still not good.

    Thanks for the advice. I will keep them on treatment until I see nothing.

    Ugh. I fear I've ruined these kids, but I don't know how. They're in a kid pen. They start out in a different kid pen, then move to the outdoor one. I have another group of kids still in the smaller kid pen because I don't dare move them in with the bigger kids and their cocci problem. I gave these kids Baycox at 3 weeks of age. I fecalled them this week and they are fine. A few cocci, that is all. I just don't get it.

    Any supportive measures I should give these cocci kids? They get probios and BS in their evening lambar (cocci meds in the morning one). I've given them Fortified Vit B. I feel I should keep that up, but how often? Anything else? They get free choice minerals and they are consuming them. They eat grain and hay well. Water consumption isn't huge, but I don't find kids drink a lot of water to begin with while they're still on milk.

    Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.
     
  7. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    Just fecalled two of the girls again. Counts are down, don't know what significant is, but they are still there. 60's on each chamber for the one doeling and 50's in each chamber in another doeling. Still on Di-Methox at treatment dosage.
     
  8. Ashley

    Ashley Active Member

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    When you say you tried the baycox to no avail, is that by fecals or by symptoms? Because you may still get stuff on fecals, dead oocysts. The baycox should have worked and you may be fretting for nothing.
     
  9. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    I did have some empty shells with the Baycox, but there were plenty of live ones in this group. Then, it was all live ones. In yesterday's fecals, I did see some changes in many of the oocytes. Some were quite deformed and many had this solid black arc in the middle where the round circle stuff should be (sorry, forget the correct terminology). Anyone know what they might be? I'm hoping dying vs hatching.
     
  10. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    I just wanted to say I am so sorry you are having such a time with your kids. I did remember that you had them on a cocci prevention. It would be awesome if you could figure out why it didn't work. Are any other folks having problems like this in your area? For your concern about having ruined them, if you are willing to work with them, you may find they pull through ok. There are several stories on here of folks pulling goats back from awful illnesses where they go on to be productive and healthy.
     
  11. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    Thank you for the support, Michelle.

    It has been horrible. I have not heard of anyone having this much trouble this year, but that doesn't mean they are not. It was a really mild winter with a wet spring....that is all I can attribute it to. When I weigh the kids, I use a scale so that I ensure my dosages are accurate. Two out of the four, well, you can see they are just not normal kids. Dull coat, dull eyes. They are still gaining, but it has slowed. It is sad to see them, yet they eat heartily and are back to playing almost normally, so I have hope, knowing that it may take a long, long while to get them to where they should be and also knowing that they may always have some troubles.

    I'll take another fecal tomorrow and am really hoping the numbers start dropping like rocks.
     
  12. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    Well, keep us updated and we'll keep our fingers crossed!
     
  13. grandmajo

    grandmajo New Member

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    Cindy, I just wanted to let you know that I had something similar happen to me last year, although it was only 1 kid out of a group of 7. I did my CoRid religiously every 3 weeks. Less than 2 weeks after the 3rd round of Corid, I had a buckling get diahrrea. I got a fecal that showed cocci everywhere, so I put them all on a treatment round of Dimethox. It cleared the buckling up and fecals looked good.
     
  14. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    Thanks for the info, Jonell.

    I talked to my vet this morning and asked if anyone else was having trouble. He said, "YES", it's been a bad year so far, not just with cocci, but with worms, as well.

    Knock on wood, I haven't seen any significant amount of worm eggs on fecal, neither kids nor adults. Adults have had 1 HC each and some a couple of cocci and that's it.

    I'll continue to fecal.

    Thanks, everyone.
     
  15. grandmajo

    grandmajo New Member

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    Which seems strange, unless you have gotten rain up there, Cindy? I always think of cocci more with wet conditions. Although the fact that we never had a true winter might have something to do with it.
     
  16. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    It's been dry lately, Jonell, but March and April or February and March (?) were very wet. So wet, I could not get my peas in the garden this year.

    Counts are way down! The two younger girls in the pen: 850 EPG. The two older girls that had the diarrhea: 2700 EPG. Much better in two days!!! I would call that "significant".