choosing the right mating

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by SALTCREEK_Nubians_Linda, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. I am having a difficult time deciding about a mating I need to make. I have 2 bucks. One is a very nice buck about whom I know everything. Let's call him my pretty buck. The other is a buck which I know little about but half of his pedigree is excellent. He's very dairy, "refined" if you will, with a very long body and very long, flat ribs. He is a bit narrow in the hips. That is my main concern. I never saw his dam but have been told she had a very nice udder. Other than that there is no information about half his pedigree except that they were all registered nubians. We'll call him my ugly buck. I have an 8 year old doe who is not overly refined, but she is not coarse either. she has a lovely udder and great teats. A little refinement wouldn't harm her, but I don't know what my ugly buck will throw, since I've never seen his kids. My dilemma is that on paper the mating between she and my pretty buck gives me very little inbreeding, but the inbreeding that is there is an individual which I am wanting to breed out of my herd. And; on paper, the mating with my ugly buck gives me a litle more inbreeding of some nice individuals which I would like to bring more into my herd and he doesn't have that individual which I am trying to breed out of my herd. I plan to sell my ugly buck this year, so I need to use him now, if I am ever going to use him. My pretty buck will still be here next year.

    My dilemma is this; do I trust what I see in the pasture with my eyes to choose the buck (the pretty one) or do I choose him based on what the planned pedigree tells me will give me more of what I want and less of what I don't want for this individual doe? :help2
     
  2. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    Linda,

    I hope to have this come accross as tactfully as I can.. Why would you own a buck when you have never actually seen the dam (or photos of the dam)? Was he recommended by someone who's opinion you respect? The reason I ask is I have heard people talk about an awesome doe they saw at a show and when I see photos, I am not as impressed as they were. "What one breeder thinks is phenominal, another may not" it can all be based on how long we have been breeding, or where we are on our "Journey" as breeders.

    You say that the sire's side of the "ugly buck" fits into your program, what is behind the dam's side? Is there any proof? LA scores, DHIA records?

    I am a firm believer that the ugliest of bucks can still produce fantastic kids, but ugly should not equate to structural incorrectness. It has been my experience that bucks with structural faults will pass the on to their progeny.. maybe not 100% of the time, but enough of the time you should be aware of it.

    Just my thoughts...

    Ken in Idaho
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    In all this I am assuming here that the ugly buck is not reg. Is the petty buck? That would be my concern getting my babies reg.
     
  4. The "ugly buck" is purebred registered. So is the pretty one. The ugly buck was one I bought when I first got started in Nubians. He was another sale barn rescue. He was weaned way too early and had a load of worms you wouldn't believe when I brought him home. (um...I have since learned not to buy at the sale barn :nooo ) I have never used him. I bought another buck about the same time from a breeder here that I used because his bloodlines were better, but he was not structurally correct so I sold him. His daughter's udders were less than desirable as well and I sold them all. I have kept this old buck merely to keep my new, truly great, pretty buck company. They did not do any DHIR testing on the one side of the ugly buck's pedigree, nor showing, nor LA. The other half of his pedigree has all that. So, I've just had him hanging around as a buddy for my young guy. If I could fault him for anything, it's that he has a lot of length and depth, but not as much width as he ought to have. And my yearling pretty guy is already larger than this older buck. My old ugly guy is a chance to get some POTF Bartholomew added to my doe's Easy Stream. However, down the road I'm going to have another buck with Bartholomew in him too, I think.

    I have mostly decided to use my pretty guy. I just wondered what other breeders would do to decide between the looks of a buck and the planned pedigree on paper. I'll be inbreeding an individual I'm trying to breed out, but it's a very small percentage.
     
  5. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well then personally I would go with the one I know the most abt and the best confirmation.
     
  6. By the way, no need for so much tact here. Just let me have it. I'm a big girl, I can take it. You're not telling me anything I don't already know. So just say, "What? Are you crazy?" :rofl
     
  7. Odeon

    Odeon New Member

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    My motto is... I breed goats, not pedigrees! What happens on paper doesn't always look as nice in real life.
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    :rofl who me?? :biggrin
     
  9. Riiiight. :biggrin I had hoped when I brought this to the forum to solidify what I already thought, but also that the topic might benefit others who are still learning, like me.
     
  10. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Well if it isn't tact you want I personally would butcher the ugly guy as I know nothing of his mom. But of course that is just me.
     
  11. Tim Pruitt

    Tim Pruitt New Member

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    Why not use Lord Aragorn? He has POTF in his pedigree and it might click with Kristen since she has a bit of Easy Stream in her. I think you would be better off using him than going with something that has a hodge-podge of bloodlines.
     
  12. :rofl I looked back at his pedigree and I had not remembered correctly. :blush2 He has POTF on both sire and dam's side. He includes individuals like POTF Monarch, Hodge-Podge Berth's Henry, Rickverlin Cameo's Pepperoni, POTF Bartholomew, The Johnson Dixie, Amberwood Jack Frost......and he also DOES have that individual I'm trying to breed out of my herd. :down Oh, and I did use him last year after all with one of Kristen's kids and got a buck kid. I sold them all. I've never seen a doe from him. So I guess I know more about his pedigree than I thought. It's just the generation before him that there are no DHIR, LA or showings for. His sire and his dam. His Grandparents are: SS-Mom's Menagerie Shadow Walker, SD-POTF Katlyn & DS-The Armbrister's Hot Shot, DD-Blackheart Farm "Pretty Babe"

    Yeah, why don't I Tim? Good plan. He should click with Kristen too. I'm just so curious about what Coco would throw. But Curiosity killed a cat. :lol

    a cross with Coco and Kristen gives me a little more inbreeding of POTF individuals. When I checked, a cross with her and Aragorn gives me almost no inbreeding. But I know what I got with him. He is ever so nice! His kids won't be scrawny, especially since Kristen is a nice, large, open doe. Is that the right word? Open? She's got great spring to her ribs.


    Kristen is the product of La-Petite-Farm ESC Superman and The Royal Ranch Kimber. Her grandparents are: SS- Easy Stream christopher, SD-GCH Red-Eagle Sugar & DS-Little-o-Acres Marguis, DD-Royal Ranch Ember

    I bought her at auction too, from a dairy. The previous owner had to quit goats because her health was failing. She sold her whole herd. I got to the auction after most of her stock sold. Gosh darn it.
     
  13. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    Have you used pretty boy on this doe before?
     
  14. Yes. I used him last year over her. She lost her twins last year because the first one was in an impossible to deliver presentation and I was not there to help her when she needed me the most. I found her pushing with nothing presenting. I found no feet and no head. What was presenting was the neck of a buckling. His legs were under him and his head was turned over his back. When I managed to get him out the doeling was alive but did not survive either. :sniffle This was my first impossible presentation. I'm glad that I saved the doe however. The doeling looked nice, if she had survived I don't know what she could have been. I KNOW my pretty boy has great genes and great records to back it up. ;)