Can you test for CL and then buy a goat from a CL herd?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by prairiegirl01, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. prairiegirl01

    prairiegirl01 New Member

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    I think I know the answer to this question but I just wanted to check with the experts. Some local friends of mine who have a dairy herd are liquidating their herd and have a variety of sweet goats. But, I found out when I went over to look at them that the herd has CL in it. They have not had any abcesses in 2 years, they say, but I am reluctant to take a risk on a goat who has been exposed. Can you test for CL and if a goat tests negative then be assured that you won't be introducing it into your own herd? My current goats have come from CAE and CL free herds and I'm reluctant to jeopardize that status. Advice?

    Thanks!

    Chris
     
  2. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    [email protected] New Member

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    I would never do it. Just had this happen to me last week.
     

  3. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    If the herd has CL that goes into remission it will be very difficult to tell which, if any, goats are negative. Positive goats without active abscesses can have a false negative.

    Christy
     
  4. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I personally would steer away from them
     
  5. prairiegirl01

    prairiegirl01 New Member

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    Thanks, that was what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure.

    Chris
     
  6. kelebek

    kelebek Guest

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    If you do the lab test through WADDL it will show if they have ever been exposed to the CL virus. If you did decide to get a goat from the infected herd, I would put the goat into quarentine, test, then test again in 4 weeks. I would then test again. If all 3 come back negative then you are pretty well safe.
     
  7. Feral Nature

    Feral Nature Active Member

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    I wouldn't buy goats from that herd.
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    If you do the lab test through WADDL it will show if they have ever been exposed to the CL virus. If you did decide to get a goat from the infected herd, I would put the goat into quarentine, test, then test again in 4 weeks. I would then test again. If all 3 come back negative then you are pretty well safe.
    ..................

    Sorry this is really inaccurate. SHI tests that WSU and UC Davis use have just as many things wrong with it as Elissa testing does. Each test result tells you something different.

    A doe testing negative only means she has no titer in the blood at this moment for cornybacterium, it doesn't mean she does not have it in her lymph nodes. Or that it isn't walled off in an external or internal abscess.

    Any other information other than this is conjecture and speculation.

    The only 100% way of knowing your goat is positive for CL is to have the exude from an abscess tested, if it is positive than she is positive. Positive on blood means she has antibody through vaccination or colostrum for cornybacterium which is a bacteria...not a virus. Like a doe who tests positive for toxo, it may mean she is positive and will abort this year, it may also mean she is positive because she has had toxo before and is immune, or that she recieved colostrum from a dam who had toxo before and is immune.

    Know what your tests results mean and what you are actually testing for.

    Know the herds you buy from, it's up to you if the price is good enough to glean does off this herd, quranteen them for life and glean clean kids off them you catch at birth...I spend about 8 years doing this, I never regretted it but then I also was super careful. Vicki
     
  9. kelebek

    kelebek Guest

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    Vicki -

    This is coming from the doctor that I have been talking with at great lengths at WSU over the last couple weeks.

    So reading this I am under the impression that no matter if someone "claims" a clean herd, you are saying that there is no way to tell if a goat is clean through out their life. Because any goat can always have an abcess internally and show negative on a blood test. Which means that every goat would have to live in isolation their entire life......
     
  10. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Allison,
    Did he also tell you that a doe vaccinated for CL will test positive...even though she doesn't have CL. abcesses?
    Sorry, but this one went right over my head. Why would you isolate a goat for their entire life??
    Kaye
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    If I wrote that shoot me now....

    WSU has a vested interest in testing, they make hundreds of thousands of dollars off dairy goat folks.

    The only way I know my goats are negative for CL is that we have never had an abscess after putting down the last of our diseased quaranteened CAE and CL positive does years ago. Yes Shi bloodtests will tell you that today the doe has no rise in titer for cornybacterium in her blood today. Will she tommorrow? The test doesn't tell you this so how do you know?

    So you buy from those who have good reputations, who have clean herds, who have had goats sold to others who do test and who continue to test negative even after the stress of the move to their new herd...which is huge.

    And when you buy new goats you quaranteen them, test them, and watch them, they will show you through blood tests and physical signs if they are positive, after this stess of the move and stress in quaranteen sometimes alone. We have never brought in a doe on broker who didn't pop an abscess during quaranteen...most before their test results were even back telling us they were indeed positive for CL or CAE or?

    But to rely on tests only, and get a false sense of what your herd really is?

    Honestly until you physically have taken the kids from their dams, raised those kids in a seperate area away from the dams, and you have personally heat treated the colostrum and pasteurised the milk to those kids, then and only then can you be about 99.99% assured that those negative tests mean anything. It's how everyone who is concerned about their reputation should start their herds, then go to dam raising.

    Testing, knowing about who you purchased from, and testing some more, then and only then should you be not heat treating and pasteurising and touting a negative herd on the internet.

    IF, all the breeders of dairy goats think that these tests are accuract why do they continue to heat treat colostrum and pasteurise milk? that would be a much better question for your Dr. Oh that right he has never raised goats. Vicki
     
  12. kelebek

    kelebek Guest

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    Actually he HAS raised goats and his internship was working with CL goats.

    I do understand that I am a "newbie" to this board, however, I am not a newbie to goats. I lurked on this site for sometime prior to asking to be a member, and knew that when I voiced an opinion I would be told that I was in the wrong - I expected that....so not worried, by reading from some other posts.

    By no means am I saying that I know everything, but the gentleman that I spoke with has alot more knowledge then most others when it comes to this particular disease, the causes, the effects, and the erradication of. This disease facinates me, and that is why I have done so much research on it.

    I can tell you that WADDL doctors do not receive a kickback from the testing - and with the 3 different doctors that I have spoken with there, they are reliable, trustworthy, and do not make a profit off of the tests that come in - the lab itself - of course - that is how they keep up with technology, pay the salaries and what not.

    Do I agree with purchasing from a positive herd - NO. I personally would not - but each to their own. If they really like a doe, feel comfortable with the situation, and what they need to do to protect the rest of the herd - that is a choice that only that person can make.

    I am not trying to start a fued - but to blatently tell me that I am incorrect - is not correct. It is fine to disagree and state what you believe as fact but others have different information or "facts" and no one on this earth knows the ultimate facts about CL at this time.
     
  13. old dominion

    old dominion New Member

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    It is easy to get caught up in the rush of the moment when purchasing goats. There is not a goat on the face of the earth worth putting my entire herd at risk for. I tell people all the time who are new to goats "If you think you can beat it you are wrong. I don't care what anyone tells you". If you are as meticulous as Vicki, maybe you can, and maybe you will be lucky, but are you willing to put every doe in your herd at risk? I ramble. My guess is that the does in question are not worth the heartache they may bring with them.
     
  14. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Ok...you've peaked my interest. What was his method of eradication?
    Kaye
     
  15. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Seriously Allison? You've been a member for 5 minutes and this is how you come across? :really

    Your motives for joining this forum have come into question.

    Sara
     
  16. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Sorry this is really inaccurate.
    ..........................

    Allison, what you wrote is and was inaccurate.


    You wrote:

    If you do the lab test through WADDL it will show if they have ever been exposed to the CL virus.
    .....................

    This is not true, WSU does a blood test, corybacterium lives in the lymph nodes and the abscess material, it is not in the blood all the time, so how can a blood test be positive if this is true?

    You said: If you did decide to get a goat from the infected herd, I would put the goat into quarentine, test, then test again in 4 weeks. I would then test again. If all 3 come back negative then you are pretty well safe.

    Is this true? 3 negative tests and you know pretty well they are safe. Why say pretty well if it is safe? IF the tests are 100% accurate than why the pretty?

    So is not what you said inaccurate...yes, it gives the poster who is asking a question as a new person the idea that if they just test it will be fine...it won't because the tests don't work the way you are making them think.

    Why my answer said if you really want to do this than quaranteen for life.

    This forum is about new people and your advice in this instance is inaccurate.

    Your next post still gives no information, it is about picking a fight with me. If you did lurk before you came on and figured out that posting like this would cause a fight, so then why would you post this? Because you want to fight?

    Not all forums are for all people. With as much experience as you seem to have I would think you would want to give back and help the new people on this forum. If you have other information about CL than give it, you certainly didn't give any in this post.

    If you have done as much research on it as you say you have, than why not share the information instead of just answering, test, test, test again and then everything is pretty safe?? Of course someone who has dealt with the disease will come on behind you and say it's inaccurate information. Vicki
     
  17. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    What was his method of eradication?
    Kaye
     
  18. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    His Method of eradication is to kill the goat and burn the body :rofl


    Sorry could not resisit.


    Continue ladies.


    Patty
     
  19. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    I was just wondering if it was to lance the abcess and fill it with formaldahyde or iodine or tobacco or whatever else someone could think of. Cure all. NOT even! :really

    I prefer your method Patty.
    Kaye
     
  20. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Prariegirl, Chris....I hope you got your question answered in between all this :) Vicki