Can you get a CAE positive, retest and get a Negative?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by FarmMAMAto8, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. FarmMAMAto8

    FarmMAMAto8 Guest

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    Looking at a lovely Toggenburg Doe in milk. She is gorgeous , her udders are amazing. Almost 2 gallons per day. The owner wanted to be honest with me before I came and looked at her. Said she tested positive for CAE, retested and it was negative. She had always been negative in the past. Could she have gotten a false positive? Her daughters are all negative. How likely is that?

    She is registered and has 4 stars for Milk Production and Build. Missed coming in 1st becasue a Judge felt her udder was too larg, and earned her 1st star as a yearling. She and her kids won most improved Herd as well. Her Daughters all earned their 1st stars as yearlings. She is selling for a great price as the owners DH is terminally ill. I just want to make certain she is CAE free.

    I enclosed a couple of pics.

    [​IMG]


    She is the goat on the right.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Halo-M Nubians

    Halo-M Nubians New Member

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    Your pictures aren't coming up...I would say an error in testing is possible of course. Will she let you say, send a sample to bio-tracking yourself before purchase? you'd only be out $4
     

  3. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Yes, you can get a false positive. Different proteins in the blood can get a false positive. A titre would be nice - Biotracking can give you a titre.

    We had a doe come back : Suspect/Positive/Suspect/Negative/Negative. Negative for the past 3 years too. So mistakes can be made, but definitely spend the $4.00 and cover your bases.

    Camille
     
  4. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

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    What about the rest of the goats in the herd...are they all negative too? If this is a CAE free herd and she's the only doe to test positive, seems more likely to be a mistake. From what I understand about the ELISA serum test though, it's far more likely to get a false negative than a false positive, especially at her age.
     
  5. FarmMAMAto8

    FarmMAMAto8 Guest

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    Yes all other goats are CAE free.
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    How likely is that? Highly unlikely, what lab?
    CAE test aside....

    She is gorgeous , her udders are amazing..........do you know enough about goats to know if this is true? have you milked her? have you tasted her milk?

    Almost 2 gallons per day......What's the udder look like, what is she milking 9 months after this peak of 2 gallons per day?

    4 stars for Milk Production and Build.....No such thing as build. 4 stars only means she is the 4th generation to get her milkstar.

    Missed coming in 1st becasue a Judge felt her udder was too larg.........nonsense, and udder that a judge feels is too large is lacking attachment.

    She and her kids won most improved Herd as well.....this sounds like some sort of county show nonsense.

    Any swiss breed who can't earn their milkstar as a yearling isn't much of a milker, alot of Nubians can do that :)

    Are all your goats at home negative for CAE? What about CL on this doe? Is this gal and ADGA member, being in Washington and with Togg breeders on the forum maybe one of us knows her and can recommend her or not. Vicki
     
  7. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    I agree with Vicki.....some of this jabber about stars, and daughters, and shows, sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me.
    This very well may be a good heavy milking doe at a good buy, and she may be clean of cae.......but I would set most of what you've been told about this doe aside....have her tested yourself.....evaluate that udder yourself......evaluate the rest of the doe as well.

    I seldom buy a doe from somebody (whome I don't know) on past history talk. I buy that doe on what her situation is today.


    Whim
     
  8. FarmMAMAto8

    FarmMAMAto8 Guest

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    Vicki said"do you know enough about goats to know if this is true?"



    Gee Vicki. No I am not a "Goat expert". I am just a Mom who wants a quality Milker for home use and good 4-H goat for my kids. I will NEVER be a goat expert. I love the animal. care very well for them, but was simply asking precisely b/c I am NOT an expert. I have already decided to pass on this one. Too many others available with no problems and would like to stick with one breed. So far that is Nubian. I love their personality. Considering some Boers, for meat, but they would be in a seperate yard.

    Tell me Vicki how much did you know at the beginnng of your Goat Owning experience? Sorry, I am not full of knowledge. I am trying to learn as I go and reading as much as I can. I am not certain why you felt the need to be so harsh. I had not purchased her, had not even seen her, nor made any plans to do so. Had my own uncomfortable gut feeling. Leaving for 12 days for vacation and figured I would just pass on this one.

    As for Country show nonsense, well that is all I want. I am not some big deal breeder. Just a Mom on a farm . I want my children to have the experience and fun of 4-H. I want the enjoyment of the Goats as a Pet/Farm Animal. Milk and meat and companionship. We will spend the money on 2 areas. 1, purchasing a quality animal. 2. Care-both daily and medical. That goes for any animal we purchase for this farm.

    Whatever Doe/Does we end up with will be shown at 1 small County Fair only.

    We had to sell off our last herd during an horribly tragic time in our lives. They were not registered, but they were wonderful, healthy animals and my Saanens gave amazing Milk, both quantity and quality. I miss them everyday.
    So call me a Goat Moron, but somehow knew enough to ask here before I even spent the gas to go see her.
     
  9. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    OMG! Lighten up! Vicki in no way meant anything by what she wrote. Perhaps you need to re-read her post. She was asking a simple question as what you were told by this 'breeder' was a bunch of garbage. Harsh? Sometimes the truth hurts.

    Everyone who replied to you was trying to HELP. If you can't see that then perhaps this forum isn't for you.

    Sara
     
  10. FarmMAMAto8

    FarmMAMAto8 Guest

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    I have no issue whatsoever with the others replies, They have been most helpful.
    I just know that attitude is everything. Not everyone coming to this board is a Big Breeder. Is that a requirement? Some of us are just small farmers and homesteaders wanting a healthy herd.

    Why the need to chase away a relatively new goat owner asking what may seem to be stupid questions. If I do not ask how will I know. I consider asking questions and reading to be part of caring well for my new herd.

    Let me clarify one issue.

    I am not now and will NEVER be a big time Breeder, going to shows, nameing my herd etc. Again I am a Farm Mom wanting to know some basic things before looking, and most certainly before investing.

    So please understand why I take offense at the attitude shown me. The post seemed quite short and irritiated with my obvious ignorance over a simple question.

    I am confused by your statement of the "truth hurts". What truth? That I am not Goat expert, well I know that. That is why I am here. That this owner maybe pulling something, how would that hurt me? People like that exist. Again why I askd and posted pictures. I had not even made plans to go see the goat. We simply exchanged a few e-mails.

    That it was Country Fair nonsense. Hurt no, offensive yes. I am a simple owner, not a breeder. I like small county fairs. I like keeping things simple and do not care for much showiness in any aspect of my life.

    Is this board only for Professional Breeders? Is there room for a farm Mom like me?
     
  11. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    Honestly, I don't have time for your games right now. This forum welcomes all goat breeders - large or small. We are all here for the same purpose. To learn and and help people raise their goats.

    You seem to want drama and that's not what we are about. You only have a few posts to your name and already you are crying foul. You are overreacting and are being overly sensitive. The proper way to handle the 'issues' you seem to be having is PRIVATELY, not PUBLICALLY on an open forum.

    We don't beg anyone to stay. If you don't like it here move on.

    Sara
     
  12. FarmMAMAto8

    FarmMAMAto8 Guest

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    Hmm not a game player. I never said I did not like it here. Had yet to form an opinion. Don't want to be begged. Seems you are assuming. Why does my questioning some ones intent bother you so?

    If you knew me you would know how much I detest drama.

    We all have a learning curve. We all start somewhere. I understand your need to defend your friend. I said nothing offensive. I was offended. But I am a big girl and will get over it.

    Think I'll stay. You might just need a simple homesteader like me around.

    You should see the stupid questions I ask on the Organic Gardening Board. I'm new at that too. It is one of the ways I learn.

    Be patient with me, you might find out I'm pretty likeable :)
     
  13. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    FarmMamato8 do not feel that Vicki was picking on you . She is blunt and to the point to everyone your not special :biggrin

    Sometimes when emotions are running high we can take things the wrong way . Stay read and learn.

    If you had Saanens before and loved them why look at another breed ? Camile has some awesome milkers and she is in Idaho is that close enough ? Traveling for the right animal will be well worth it .

    Patty
     
  14. Bilrite Farms

    Bilrite Farms Guest

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    FarmMamato8 don't feel that people are picking on you. They are trying to help. Just think about it from their perspective also... the questions that you asked and questions about your possible new goats are repeated fairly often by new goat owners on this forum. The bluntness and directness quite possibly comes from this being the 100th plus time they've responded to a post similar to yours. They've got their response down to a science for the fewest key strokes :biggrin

    Of course, your questions are good questions. That is how we all learn. I know I was the same way with my questions when I first started with goats and they did come from one of the people on this forum too. Don't be afraid to ask questions and don't give up on this forum, there is a lot to learn here, just remember that the moderators and the many list members who often respond are also very busy with their lives but they love their goats and helping people learn about goats - just short on time.

    Trisha
     
  15. FarmMAMAto8

    FarmMAMAto8 Guest

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    Hi Patty, thank you for being kind. I think I understand Vickies intent! I am no longer offended. :) I am just a very small scale Goat owner.

    I loved my Saanens for their quality and quantity of Milk. Camille is close by and has been so kind. I just fell in love with my big Goofy Nubian. Her milk was as good as the Saanens. The 2 Nubians I bought have that same silly personality. I have not precluded Saanens. or Toggs.

    The Nubians I bought are dry, as the owner knew she was going to sell them. I need a Doe or 2 in milk. My children and husband drink it like water. We have missed it. Camille does not have a Doe in milk right now. Considering i am leaving on vacation for 12 days. I am certain there will be other Goats to consider when I retuen . Our Nubians ar still with thier previous owner as we need to travel again in August for a few days and also want to expand the Goat yard.

    BTW-You have German Shepherds as well. My Maedchen is a pure bred, rescued form the Animal Shelter. I have no idea who had her before or what her story was. I am just amazed at her intelligence.

    She never I mean never lets our little Autistic boy out of her sight when he is outside. Though the perimeter of our property is not fenced she NEVER leaves our property. She does patrol it though.

    Also she is AMAZING with the Goats. When our Daughter Molly would milk as she would finish one doe she would tell Maedchen to go get Trudy or Faith and no kidding she would fish them out of the herd and up to the stanchion. BY name!
    Oh she is a gem! I would love to see pics of your dogs.
     
  16. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Not everyone coming to this board is a Big Breeder. Is that a requirement?
    ........................................

    Well considering the owner of this forum is not a Big Breeder I would think that being part of this forum you just have to be sane? I do not show Nationals, I appraise a little, I show way to little, I talk way to much to be a big breeder :) I do not DHIR, have a home grown champion, not sure where you got the idea I am a Big Breeder. No Big Breeder is going to own a forum and respond to questions. I am glad you are no longer offended, but those are the answers to your question, Whim just did it more eloquently than I did. Note you were not offended of him? It's also the truth, unsugar coated and it's how you should be looking at your purchases from this point forward. In your mind you should look at all goat breeders as used car salesman, do the testing yourself, milk the doe yourself, it used to be the proverbial gallon milker everyone had for sale, now it is the 2. Then you can discern between who is telling you the truth and who is blowing smoke. What this forum is great for is letting us help you find great milkers from well ran herds in your area, like Patty did in the post above. Not that there aren't 2 gallon milkers out there but without some breeding we all know what the udder would look like.

    I don't care if you are just a homesteader like me or a big wig.... having good sound stock that is disease free is the only way to run a farm. You have to sell stock, so having tested animals with good conformation and alot of milk, and pedigrees that others want for their herd can make you or break you. You will have to milk what you can and sell the rest, you can't eat them all. And sorry, but new people unless you have a livestock background, do not know what good conformation is.

    "I will NEVER be a goat expert." You will either become an expert in dairy goats, because there are few vets who know anything about small ruminants or you will fail in dairy goats. Meaning that more money will go into them than you get out of them. This more than anything else is what my goal for this forum is, to have farms that make a little money with the goats. Well that and to make sure new folks are armed with real facts and aren't swayed by the gal who was trying to sell you that goat above.

    And if you knew me you would know I started my farm to have 'just' family milk, 4H does for my kids to show since I showed horses as a kid and young adult, and just look at me now 22 years later, I run a profitable farm, so never say never, what will you be doing when you are 50?

    It seems to be the newbie curse to come onto forums and then tee off the very people who will help you.

    I will look for the apology in my PM box. And if you do have problems on the forum, this is not HT, albeit I love a good banter myself, do take it up with the admins and mods first or do it privately...oh yeah it's the admins you are yelling at in open forum! Vicki
     
  17. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    :rofl Ok, I've decided we need to come up with a defination of "Big Breeder". :mad Cause I'm getting pretty sick and tired of being called "Elite" and "Big Breeder" when I am NOT EVEN CLOSE!! Oh, BTW...I only own 15 goats, including milkers, bucks,and kids, so I guess if you mean numbers...then I'll never be, because I don't WANT more than 15!

    I don't have the money to "play" with the big boys and girls. If a "Big Breeder" means spending every waking moment (and some times in your sleep) trying to breed the perfect goat, keep the herd healthy by knowing what to do in a crisis, listening and using other's practices, doing all the little things that needs to be done, and getting absolutely FILTHY when you'd much rather be in the A/C or warmth of your house watching a good movie or going out to dinner...then hmmm...maybe I am. But, I sure don't feel like it at times! LIKE RIGHT NOW...I'M COVERED IN GOAT HAIR- clipping these blasted goats for Nat., SWEATING LIKE A PIG (had to come in for a few mintues to COOL OFF), COVERED IN DIRT AND GRIM FROM CLEANING OUT AND RELOADING THE TRAILER. Not to mention my damn nerves are shot watching everyone like a hawk to keep them healthy and the fear of something here at home going wrong while I'm gone. Nope, I sure don't feel like an ELITE! I feel a lot more like the goat's "HIRED HAND"!!
    Kaye
     
  18. BlissBerry

    BlissBerry Guest

    I too will be looking for my apology in my PM box. Just make sure you send it by Tuesday evening as I leave for Nationals bright and early on Wednesday.

    Am I a 'Big Breeder'? I don't think so. I'm just a hard working goat person who does everything I can to maintain a healthy and beautiful herd of Nubians and LaManchas. :)

    Sara
     
  19. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    """Whim just did it more eloquently than I did. V"""

    :rofl Well, I ain't never been called eloquent before....but thanks....I think ?

    .....and Kaye, I weigh about 145 lbs soak-n-wet......I'm always gonna fall short of the BIG times.


    .....and FarmMAMAto8-------I am a down to earth homesteader to the bone. No big herd here, and never will be. But listen......just because you have a small herd in no way means that you have to give up quality, or health in your herd. Just no reason to jeopardize a clean herd if there is no reason to.
    Vicki said what she did, because some of what you posted to begin with made no sense at all from either the buyer or seller's position.......ex specially the earning more stars thing. Most of those stars that you are seeing were earned by her dam, granddam's, ect. .........in otherwords, we both could see where you might be letting a lot of flaky credentials and show talk, guide you one way or the other.

    I said what I did in order to get you to see past the history here, and look at what she is today....and then what she has the potential to do for you and your herd in the future. Doe's she have the potential to kid easy next spring, and put 2 gal of milk in the pail a day ?...maybe so. Doe's she have the potential of added CAE positive animals to your future herd ?....maybe so again. Always look ahead with any purchase!!!

    So,.... if you can, hang around here some, and you will learn way more about culling, buying, selling, maintaining, managing, and treatments than you can imagine. You and your herd will benefit greatly by listening to some of these old timer's around here who have done been there and done it.
    I don't always agree with their answers, and sometimes don't like it.....but most of the time, I find out that they were right all along.......and at the very least, I don't think that there is a soul on here that would purposefully mislead you, or try to openly embarrass you.
    Vicki is a very nice lady that loves to help folks, and I can assure you that she has you and your goats best interest in mind.

    Whim
     
  20. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    So...when all is said and done, the question remains...can you get a false CAE test? Seems to me that you can, ANY lab can make a mistake, after all my dh once tested positive for hepatitis B and when he and I both raised our eyebrows the test was repeated once, twice, three times and each time confirmed that the one positive was an error. So it seems to me that the best lab is never foolproof and a retest is always reasonable.