CAE question

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by whimmididdle, Dec 9, 2007.

  1. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    I didn't want to bump in on Stacy's thread , but do want to ask this;;;;
    I have a similar situation here......I friend of mine has a nubi doe that is pregnant.....he had her tested for CAE, and the test results as interpreted to me were this.....she is slightly positive, but in no way means that she has CAE.
    Huh ? ain't that kinda like being a little bit pregnant ? Has anyone ever heard of a %%% of probability with CAE ? please enlighten me a bit with results of this kind.
     
  2. stacy adams

    stacy adams New Member

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    I would have to agree with you there, on the "slightly pregnant" theory.. Although, just because a goat is CAE positive, (like HIV positive) doesn't mean that she has CAE symptoms (AIDS)
    Where was she tested at? MHO.. even if slightly, she's positive. Your friend may want to get set up to pull kids and then when she freshens, send in some colostrum to be tested. Vicki say's thats a surefire way to know for sure.. so does Bob At PavLab.
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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  4. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    AS this was told to me in private, and they were sensitive talking about it to start with, I really can't say much more.......I'm sure this was a blood test that was sent off, but don't know where to. This doe had been tested before with neg. results as far as I know.....think she is now about 4 years old, and is on her 3 rd freshening coming up. She looks and acts very healthy right now, and always has. To my knowledge, none of her kids have ever tested positive, and I know that some were dam raised. Maybe she's 51% pregnant, and 49% positive CAE. :crazy
     
  5. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Have them send a colostrum sample into pavlab
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I also don't agree with all the borderline test results. To me any titer means she will eventually be positive. Otherwise where did the titer come from? Immunity? to an autoimmune disease? Vicki
     
  7. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :rofl Uhhh..yeah, I think so. Being a little bit CAE positive means, to me, she's positive.
    Kaye
     
  8. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Let me ask this question then..... Have you ever known of any case like this, where a doe test borderline, but never passed CAE to her dam raised kids, and never had any complications with arthritis, ect. ? I know that titers have weird ways of showing up at times. I know a lady who will show a titer for TB, and has all her adult life, but never has had TB. She raised 5 children, and is now almost 80 years old. I know that I had some beagles that I got canine brucellosis in a few years back. One female would test positive on a vaginal swab culture, but never showed a blood titer for it on any test. I was told then, that whatever grew in the dish, was more accurate than any titer test. I might be talking apples and oranges here.
     
  9. Bella Star

    Bella Star New Member

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    I personaly will not buy, keep or sell any goat that tested positive to any of the blood test CAE, CL,TB, QFever, Brucellious or Johnes .Isolate and retest the borderline + if selling and cull if comes back +
    I myself cannot give blood because of Lymes disease, I was blood tested and it was sent to Austin just like rabbies , I look well but ...just like CAE there is lot's of problems ... sometimes I think I need to be took to sale barn :(
     
  10. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I would retest a borderline in a month and see what is up. Make sure it's an ELISSA test not AGID, and if still just raised and borderline I would spend the money for testing PCR also.

    We have had lots of positive does that never had any clinical signs. We had a champion finish her championship as a positive doe without any clinical signs while here sister who was also positive had swollen knees. There is no rhyme or reason to this auto immune disease, and although a kid may test negative after nursing a positive mom initially, she will eventually become positive. vicki
     
  11. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    "I myself cannot give blood because of Lymes disease, I was blood tested and it was sent to Austin just like rabbies , I look well but ...just like CAE there is lot's of problems ... sometimes I think I need to be took to sale barn"

    Yep, I can fully appreciate this statement. Lymes may have stolen part of my body and my ability to work, eat, and sleep, like I used to. But I refuse to let it steal my joy. Don't you let it steal yours either.

    Thanks for the replies......I'm not sure that this guy understands all the ends and outs with CAE, or these slightly positive results. I don't guess that I do either, when it comes to results like these. I'm not sure what he will do, but he seems very concerned about it.


    There was one thing that I didn't think to say about this case.......This slightly pos. doe was dam raised.....her mother is now about 8 yrs. I think .... I know that this dam has been tested for CAE at least 2 or 3 times, and was tested again not to long ago.......Her test have always been neg. .......
    Where would this slightly positive doe, have gotten CAE from. ??? I kinda understood per S.R. articles, that it is not likely passed through breeding functions. I think this is what is frustrating this guy the most, as it appears this stuff just fell out of the sky and happen to find his pen to land in. I would be a little upset myself if it showed up like this.
     
  12. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Dam raised kids sometimes will steal milk from other does. This is one of the reasons it's so important to run two separate herds if you choose to keep positive goats. When I was first in goats, I bought a beautiful doeling out of a negative dam. At a year old, her knees started to swell and I had her tested. She was positive and it turns out that there were a few positive does on that farm. I culled that doe and the other breeder did some culling and segregating of her goats. I would never allow a kid to nurse from a doe who was diagnosed borderline positive.
     
  13. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Stealing milk from a positive doe would make sense I guess......but as far as I know, this guy has never had a doe to test positive, or even slightly positive. Other than bringing in a new buck a couple of times in the past 6 to 8 years, this for all practicle purposes has been a closed herd. Hardly ever over about 12 goats at any given time that I can remember. Like Vicki says; I'm gonna suggest the he re-test this doe with a couple different test......for sure when she freshens this time. I know this fellow is very down and out over this, because he has always been very responsible and proud of his management, along with his bloodlines. It's kinda sad to see someone who does do the right things, get so depressed about this. I hope he don't get to the point where he gives up and quits goating altogether.
     
  14. GallopingGoats

    GallopingGoats New Member

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    you can get a lab mistake though. I would retest. Shannon
     
  15. Bella Star

    Bella Star New Member

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    Yes, always get a second opinion and if its a really important goat or a sale... retest the 3rd. time before culling or putting down .
     
  16. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Uh , with that said Linda, How often is it that a goat has tested pos., or slightly pos. and then has tested neg. on later test done ? I remember asking Vicki one time about having false pos. results on a CAE test, and best that I remember , she throwed a lot of caution to the wind. Meaning that if she ever had one to test pos., then she considered this animal to be pos. regardless of what later test might show.
    Maybe Vicki isn't that strict, but that's how I took what she said on the subject of false neg. , and false pos. results.
     
  17. GallopingGoats

    GallopingGoats New Member

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    It can happen and I think it is a matter of possible lab contamination. I had a young buck once, he had never left my place, never bred to outside does. My whole herd has tested neg. yearly since I started in 2001. herds I bought from had tested neg. yearly for many, many years. His test and only his came back slightly pos. I didn't believe it, knew it was a mistake. I retested and the results came back "clearly negative" and they thanked me for retesting. So , it can happen. Shannon
     
  18. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Right now if I had a doe come back positive or borderline I would highly doubt the test. I would retest, have them rerun the blood they have, but retest with another lab and also run PCR. It's how I deal with all purchases anyway....she would go into quaranteen, tested AGID, tested Elissa and tested PCR.

    A CAE positive test would hurt my business, can you even imagine if someone like S...... from the old forum, had been able to get a positive test out of any of the goats she bought from me? Shoot they were tested for things I don't even test for. Positive for anything she would have tried to single handedly ruin my reputation. It's why forums are so hard, and why alot of bigger breeders who could be such an asset to forums won't say anything...the bigger you are the more they like to see you fall...proof from the NT thread which really was targeting Kastdemur, plain and simply. For S..... to then go on HT and make a comment about it? Like I was the one in the wrong....just shows how new she is.

    When you put yourself and your goats out here on the internet you also put out your reputation. I couldn't just sit and do nothing like most others, then when you say something you are the bad person......OK so it was fun also :) But I refuse to sit and let anyone get slammed like that. And then we all wonder why the most influential breeder of our time won't come on the internet and talk bloodline with us?

    But back to the subject and off my rant? It's very very uncommon to have a positive or borderline test not mean positive. So make sure along with finding out your herd status, what are you going to do nextwhen you do have a positive or border line animal. That's the hard part. Vicki
     
  19. Jo@LaudoDeumFarm

    Jo@LaudoDeumFarm New Member

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    One thing that I have heard of is that mycoplasma's will sometimes give a positive cae result. (I have no idea what the knowledgeable breeders on this forum think about that, but it is mentioned often on email lists.)

    also, the titer for cae is not like a titer for a vaccination. So if they are slightly positive it's not like they have had an immune response against the virus. A slight positive wouldn't mean anything good. I think it would mean that the animal is positive but the immune system is holding the virus in check at that moment so the physical symptoms are not showing up. Or there is a very small possibility that the test is getting interference from something else.

    PCR's are probably the next best test to make sure. (I know it's all very hard to figure out. I like Vicki's idea of doing the pcr test on the colostrum. :/)
     
  20. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Thanks for the replies