Building Show Udders

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by paulaswrld, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. paulaswrld

    paulaswrld New Member

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    Hey all,

    I have a few questions...last year was our first year showing and we just hit the local fairs and overall did well....but, often we were 2nd or 3rd behind some REALLY BIG UDDERS....I have been told that udders like that come from of course genetics and then some extra work....like milking 3x a day and particular feed, etc... Now I know everyone doesn't want to give away all there show tricks but, we are planning on heading to nationals this year and would really love some advice. Any tricks of the trade would be very welcome!! I am mostly curious about the number of times a day to milk and consistency of the times. Also, I am going to a show 2 weeks before nationals and some folks mentioned that I should show with a soft udder that day....does "really bagging up" take a toll and needs to be done only occasionnally???

    Thanks so much,

    Paula
     
  2. Ravens Haven

    Ravens Haven New Member

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    I think show udders come from genetics. Feed isn't going to make the udder itself bigger if in fact it is not. I have a doe that has a painted on udder, she milks alot but b/c of the shape and style of mammary it doesn't look it. Yes uddering a doe up takes it toll on the animal especially if it is OVER UDDERED. I never over udder my animals I want that udder to still be there from year to year and I still need her milk every day. There are others that are more experienced in goats than I am but this is my humble opinion. But genetics and care come into play here.

    Autumn
     

  3. Paula,
    We show our does a lot ...........12 or more times a year. We xepect all of our does to milk too, yearlings generally producing 10-12 lbs and mature does 12-18. So they all have good capacious udders. We do not milk extra for shows, just the regular twice a day schedule.
    We do not overfill udders either, we plan to show does with 12-14 hours milk.
    Also we showed at nationals in '06 and showed the does every weekend before Nationals with no problem. If the does are milking well, being fed well, and are not overbagged they should be just fine.
    There are 3 ways to have a big udder:
    overbagging---I've seen folks do 24 hours plus MANY times
    a big meaty udder with little milk
    or a productive capacious mammry system. So proper udder care and managament is key but genetics play a major role too.
    Becky
     
  4. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    Paula,
    Autumn is right, most of it come from genetics, being well attached and proper balanced is key. We at times will milk three times a day to build production before a stressfull trip to a show. I don't think this builds a big udder in fact it may even keep some of the capacity down if done frequently. We milk a 10-14 2x a day milking schedule throughout the year because that is what works with our schedule. I also think that early lactation and building the lactation peak high builds the most capacity, it becomes near impossible to increase capacity during show season because of the travel stress. So start early.
    Tim
     
  5. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Lets get real here....few people show goats, except in the first months fresh, with only 12 hours of milk in the udder. Secondly if you milk 3 times a day a does udder will not stretch enough to hold the 18 hours of milk most does are shown with. 99% of those who are showing nationals freshen their does to kid the month or two before nationals so they are fresh in milk for the milkout, or/and start milking 3 times a day until the day of the milkout.

    Most who say they show with 12 hours of milk in the udder mean they leave from home that night with 12 hours of milk in the udder and let her bag for the show the next morning.

    A really good way of getting rid of this over uddering, and worse is when you see it in photos for a website of all things....is to put the doe at the end of the line where she belongs when she streams milk for a obviously weak orifice. Because if she is leaking or streaming milk with 12 hours of milk in her she is a cull.

    As a new person, with certain judges, you simply will not win without your does uddered up...they simply can't add that dairy character and general appearance is more points than that over bagged rear udder. Vicki
     
  6. This is very true. I hate seeing people come in with uddered up does and go to bed without milking!

    The average show we go to we leave Friday about 5 PM. At 4 PM or so as close to leaving as possible all does are completely milked. That way they travel in comfort plus we have hay and water for them in the trailer and they eat because they are not full and uncomfortable. Once we arrive, we have to decide whether to relive again or to relive early in the AM. It depends on the trip.
    If we are traveling 8-9 hours and get in super late the does have not made much milk. Then we get up early, by 5, relieve each doe partway and let them top off the udder before showing.
    Shows with short 4 hour drives we just milk everyone again about 9 PM and they are set to go the next morning.
    We went to our first Nationals in 06 and plan to go again this year. We decided right from the beginning that we would not do this. Most herds do not have a super high shot at going National GCH….maybe with a doe like this I can see it, but I don't want to disrupt a whole breeding program and have late kids to do this. Besides, our does have long steady lactations and usually look much better at 4 -5 months fresh than 1 month fresh.
    Becky
     
  7. Aja-Sammati

    Aja-Sammati Active Member

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    I know at least one top herd that milks 3X a day as soon as it gets hot before the Nationals.

    This is a personal pet peeve- does that leak should be asked to leave the ring. If judges were consistent about this then overuddering might stop! Besides the fact that I don't want any does possibly CAE or Staph aureus positive milk streaming all over the ring or onto the judges hands...especially not the S. aureus!

    Does constant over uddering break down the orifices?

    Michelle
     
  8. old dominion

    old dominion New Member

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    I wish a few posts could answer all you needed to know about uddering up for a show. I think you need to know how your does travel. We show very little but one of our two year olds will make milk regardless of travel, heat, noise, etc. The other doesn't make any milk from the minute she gets on the truck until she is headed home. Some judges will place the udder with the most milk. It can be very frustrating to stand behind someone who came to the show the prior night uddered and taped, but it happens. Showing is about more than the size of an udder. Knowing how to show a goat to her best is really a talent. Learn how to do it and do it well. The more you show the more you realize you must have a total package in an animal to place against quality animals.

    Jolene
     
  9. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho Member

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    There is an Alpine breeder that shows here that shows up on Friday with her does already completely bagged and taped up. She only shows one day of a 2 day show, because apparently they aren't able to udder up again for Sunday. Blech.

    Tracy
     
  10. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

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    A good udder is going to be good regardless if there's 12 or 24 hours of milk in there. Same with a bad udder. In fact, some ok udders get worse when overbagged...like poor foreudder attachments/pockets.

    I have never shown a doe with more than 14 hours of milk. Granted I don't show nearly as much as a lot of folks on here...but I would much rather see a softer udder and the goat walking naturally then a rock-hard udder and the goat waddling. I do have a goat that leaks...and she leaks whenever she has gone over 12 hours since milking. Kind of impossible to overudder her as any extra milk just leaks out.

    I have also seen many people come to shows with bagged up does and not milk until after showing. I think it's inhumane.
     
  11. paulaswrld

    paulaswrld New Member

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    I just wanted to say thank you for all the replies.

    Paula
     
  12. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    There's no way to "build" a good udder. It's genetic. She's either got it or not.

    However, there are ways to make a good udder look better. You start at home. Decide for yourself how many hrs. the udder can hold without shelving in the fore, bulging in the rear, destroying your medial suspensory-thus causing teats to point outward and udder floor looking flat. I've never seen a good udder with 24 hrs. of milk in it and still look good. That's just too much milk, if they milk to start with. In the spring, 14 hrs. is pushing it. In the fall, if they are stale then you can add a few more hrs.

    It's all in learning what looks best for the doe. Just because there's a milk out...doesn't mean you can't take milk out after the milk out hr.
    Kaye
     
  13. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    At some of our shows, we have a pre show milkout, so people can't over udder their does. One of my does, a La Mancha, won BUIS after being milked the evening before the show. While some of my Nubians don't bag up as full as some of the Swiss breeds in 12 - 16 hours, I've seen quite a few Swiss breed does actually needing to be relieved a bit before the show. We've had some judges confront breeders who over udder their does. Kathie
     
  14. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    :rofl I have to laugh every year at our state fair in October. They have a milk out, but from milk-out to show time is like 15-16 hrs. for whatever breed shows first. (rotation-except for RG) Say Alpines show at 8:00am, ok they have 15-16 hrs. in them, then Toggs are shown about noon? IF someone doesn't understand that they CAN milk them out after the milk out, then there are does in there with 19-20hrs. in them! No one ever bothers to tell the "new" people that they can remove milk after the milk out. Unfair? You bet. Since we're there for 4 days...I doubt anyone in their right mind would strut a doe for 4 days!
    When I do go (I try to go to Convention and avoid this show) then my does are milked later in the evening. Even in October, 18 hrs. of milk is just too much for my does.
    Kaye
     
  15. Qvrfullmidwife

    Qvrfullmidwife New Member

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    I was really proud of Katie when her FF doe was penalized by a judge for *not* being as full as the rest of the does in the ring. K told the judge "This is our first show ever and it just didnt seem smart to let her get overly full. I actually want her to be able to be productive for me for a lifetime and I am not interested in ruining her attachments right off of the bat!" The judge basically said "uh yeah...that is true, good point".
     
  16. Way to go K! :handclap Lindsey had her first showing last year and was not really informed on what to do prep wise for the ring. We watched what everyone else was doing and copied them :blush. This year we are better prepared for show and will look out for any "new" 4-hers looking confused. ;)
     
  17. Nancy

    Nancy New Member

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    I know what you mean Kaye. Milkout is about 5:30 the night before. We milk ours then but go back about 9 or 10 and milk everyone out again. I think it is too much stress leaving the milk in that long.