Buckling acting odd

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by baileybunch, Jun 14, 2008.

  1. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    Almost 13 week old buckling. Dewormed on schedule, Corid on schedule. Drank his last bottle this morning at 7:30am, ate his dairy pellets, acted like his normal annoying, jumping on us, trying to steal bottles self. We feed 16% dairy pellets, Calf Manna, alfalfa pellets and good grass hay. They have a paddock with browse. Fresh water twice a day. Nothing new.

    Noon: Yelled out twice in an alarming way. Ran toward the fence where I was. Layed down flat on his side on the ground, kicked at his side with rear leg. Acted depressed. Got him up and Brought him to the barn.

    He would stretch his body. Layed down a few more times. Wouldn't move around much. Temperature normal, membranes normal. No appearance of bloat. No pooping or peeing, penis area dry. I couldn't tell if he was trying to urinate or poop...but over an hour and did neither.

    Gave a drench of 1 tsp Ammonium Chloride, ACV and water over the next two hours. Banamine for discomfort. 20 CC Oil for possible constipation. Pepto for tummy ache. Drenched with plane cool water, about 80 CC. Still no poop or pee but walking around and nibbling hay.

    2pm-Still depressed (laying in stall) but it is nap time and a warm day. Got him out of the stall. Stretched. Took his temp, normal. He pooped! Penis area was wet. Put him up. Buddies left him behind, so he cried. Called him, he followed his buddies, pooped again! Then stopped and urinated, a good flow, stuck his face in it. Acting normal again.

    Follow-up: Going to take down a bottle of water with Kefir in it for hydration and probiotics. Will repeat again this evening.

    I thought he was too young for urinary calculi (?). He is our "drama king" which might explain some of the dramatic behavior but definitely not normal for him. Explanations? Continued support?
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    99.9% it's urinary calculi, way too much protien, way to much phos in dairy lactation pellets and calf manna for a buck or wether without ammonium chloride as part of his diet daily. Even then if you have high iron or sulfur in your water you may not be able to feed that much protein or grain to a buck and keep him healthy even with AC.

    The treatment with AC is 1 tablespoon and banamine. I would not fill him with oil, you have now ruined his rumen bugs also. If you give him enough AC and banamine and he pees, it likely may contain the stone, and some blood. If he doesn't pee, it's just dribbling than the stone is usually in the process, which you can snip off. The end of the penis has this little alien creature on it that is usually where the stone is lodged. If you can't get him peeing than his bladder will burst. He will act like the crisis is over until the next day when a fever starts as septicimia starts, it's a gruesome death.

    You have to change his diet, and right now it should be grass hay only until he is 100%. AC as part of his diet daily 1 teaspoon per buck per day, not matter how big or small.

    The buckling I got through UC I drenched with AC every 2 hours with a tablespoon of it, he and I had a very intimate relationship as I massaged his prepuce and shaft and eventually did cut off the process. Keep up with the AC at the large doses and the banamine for a day or two until you are sure he is back to normal.

    Part of owning bucks is to spend at least part of the day once a day or at least every other day making sure they are peeing freely.

    If you have to feed him grain than move to a meat goat pellet that contains AC if previously you were using it and this was your result....you have to get it in the goat, so stick it to the grain (and your protein for your dairy does is to high for your buck anyway) with oil.

    No reason in the world to be feeding calf manna to a buck. Vicki
     

  3. leslieh

    leslieh New Member

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    Hope you caught him in time and he recovers quickly!

    Leslie
     
  4. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    Well.....when I read your thread, I was just thinking that he got stung real hard in the side by a bee, or maybe even snake bit...the way that you said he was fine, but then cried out like that, and was scratching at his side made me think that.

    I guess I never thought that UC could just hit like a heart attack like this. Thanks V....you took me to school again.

    Hope your buckling gets OK

    Whim
     
  5. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    yep was thinking UC also
     
  6. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    Thanks for the information. Since he is so young (actually he is the youngest, so he's really only 11 weeks old), just being weaned from the bottle (today), I thought he was supposed to have a good grain ration to help him grow. :/ I still haven't figured the balance of "growing kid" to "buck" in feeding. We did catch it right away as we did see him pee this morning. We do watch everyone at least twice a day. Okay. Since today is "weaning day" we will move the bucklings to a separate area. I will continue treating him a few more days and then work on changing his diet.

    Checked on him again, he was completely normal. Came running when I called, eating weeds and hopping on stumps with everyone else. I did check, no blood on the end of his penis and a good flow, lots of urine. I gave him the oil because he wasn't pooping or peeing and with the way he was kicking at his side, I didn't know if it was constipation or UC. Will give him Kefir again.

    Thanks again. Having bucks is going to keep me busy!
     
  7. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    Forgot to ask...since I am almost out...where are you all getting your ammonium chloride from? We haven't needed any lately, until today.
     
  8. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    I did not know that you should not feed a buckling calf manna. I will feed him differently now. He is almost 15 weeks old. Should I stop grain all together for him and just feed grass hay and A. Pellets to him? Should I feed A. pellets if he is not getting the phos. from the grain?

    Ugh! I think I am confused again. :)

    When is a buckling not a kid anymore? That is my question too.

    Kim
    There should be some included in "Goat Mineral" by Manna Pro. That is what I use.
     
  9. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    BTW I am really glad your buckling is acting better. Glad you caught it quick like that. :)
     
  10. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    Yes! When is a buckling no longer a kid? Or do you feed them differently from the start? I have a few articles, one from Sue Reith and one from Tim (?) about caring for bucks. Time to re-read. I'll see about those minerals but I don't think they are available around here. We use BB Tech Master. I'll have to order some more Ammonium Chloride from somewhere on Monday. Bucklings are in their new paddock tonight...with grass hay and no grain. :sniffle
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I get my AC from pipevet.com

    I don't raise bucklings with doelings, so here about 3 weeks old bucklings are in their own pen raised on their own meat goat pellet, alfalfa hay which becomes alfalfa pellets as they are a little older and eat mine which are large.

    AC in the mineral is never going to be enough, the idea that it's dosed correctly..well we know it isn't, if each buck was eating 1 teaspoon per head per day of the mineral that would still be diluted with the minerals...well my bucks don't even eat a tablespoon of mineral per week, period.

    If you are going to feed grain to bucks or wethers who have plumbing with a P trap built in, that actaully causes stones to pile up there, give them AC every day, or feed a meat goat pellet that contains it. Don't go diluting their meat goat pellet with other phosphrous containing grain 'top dressings'.

    The buck I took care of was 12 weeks old he was being treated for entero, which you all know I think is a zebra problem...I asked her to bring him to me, I knew it was UC when I felt the sandy crystals inside his sheath.

    Milk is very high in calcium for the diet, he would have to be eating alot of protein (calf manna) or alot of grain to counteract the calcium in his diet to cause stones. Have you raised bucks before and no problems? I know there are areas in Texas...Zavalla and LaGrange that have such problems with both iron in the soil but sulfur in the water that even with AC they simply can't keep bucks alive if they eat any grain. Vicki
     
  12. baileybunch

    baileybunch New Member

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    I have raised a wether before with no problems. We sold him when he was two. And we have had several ram/wether lambs but they are only around for the summer. Never any issues until today.

    I'm having to re-learn all over again! This is our first time raising bucklings which will become bucks. I just never thought to worry about UC until today. I did read something about baking soda being a possible issue. This is the first year we have ever put bs out free choice and the goats have been all over it! I removed it today. Removed the bucklings to their own "space" now also.

    Thanks. I am glad I did catch it. I did not find crystals on his hair. Thankfully he's white. Easy to notice things. Re-reading Sue Reith's article is very interesting. She acutally suggests a small amount of Calf Manna if you only feed grass hay.
     
  13. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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  14. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    You can't see the crystals, they are tiny like sand and feel just like sand. Vicki
     
  15. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I for 10 years now have only fed grass hay/alfalfa pellets and a little meat goat pellet and not much of that their diet is mainly alfalfa pellets. Have never had a UC problem and my older bucks are just on alfalfa pellets and grass hay unless working.
    grain is what causes the imbalance and thus the UC.
     
  16. cloverhillgoats

    cloverhillgoats New Member

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    I get my AC from my vet. He sells it in a quart sized zip-loc bag. No shipping or waiting works for me!
     
  17. haeema

    haeema New Member

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    ....................ok I'm stupid here. But you actually cut the little curley thingie off of the end of his penis? :shocked Do they bleed very bad when that happens? What do you use to cut it off? Will it affect his breeding when he's grown? I'm just asking all of these questions in case I have to do this to my boys in the future.
     
  18. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Yes, you cut it. No, it doesn't bleed hardly any at all. No, it doesn't affect their fertility.

    I just did this to a Sable buck that was here during the winter. Seems he was on a high protein feed and after he was brought here~1 week later~ he stopped up...luckily for me in the very tip of the urethral process. The "pizzler" is what it's referred to in layman terms. :lol It narrows down to a tiny opening on the very end and this is where you get "sand blockage". I won't cut the whole process off if I have to do that. Reason-IF I have to insert a Tom Cat catheter I want that little piece I left to make the insertion easier.

    They are still fertile, can spray-only larger streams- and urinate just like before.
    Kaye