Buck scouring-Help?- He's gone...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by DostThouHaveMilk, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. When I went to feed today, my seven month old Nubian buck wasn't interested in the grain. Normally he's barking at the does he's with while I feed the other groups. He's droopy looking and scouring pretty badly. He was not scouring yesterday and was his peppy self yesterday. He wanted attention and drank some water. Looked like he was eating some hay.
    Eyes are nice and deep pink. He's been in that pen, with that same haybale since October 15th. Same amount of grain available. He shares with his harem....
    I'm going to take his temp after I go back down. I need to find a thermometer first.
    He was raised on CAE prevention. Well grown out. Born late March, a premie. The only survivor of triplets. I don't think I've wormed him yet, so I will likely give that a go. I should have wormed him before taking him down, but he was in a pen of pirhanas (Jersey/Beef heifers). I'll check my records to be sure.
    He felt a bit chilled, but after feeling him and then Danielle, they were similar. The temperature went from quite cold back to nice this week.
    I guess I'm just trying to figure out just how aggressive I get. Should I break out the Antitoxin? After losing Boomer last year I am a bit paranoid. I also lost another buck earlier this breeding season. He was a Boer buckling I'd had for a whopping two to three months.
    If he has a fever am I most likely seeing pnuemonia? His eyes are kinda crusty, but the hay has a bit of dust in it. I have Nuflor and am willing to treat him if that is a possibility.
    If no fever, I figure I'll check his ruminations, dose him with some ProBios, B-Com and I don't know what else.
    He has been breeding and been pretty active.

    Thanks!
     
  2. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    The first thing I think with a scour case like this is worms, and cocidiosis. Corid, and either Ivomec Plus or Cydectin what do you have on hand?
    I'ld treat for both then get some BoSe, vit b, and probiotics, steal cud, or give him some kefir. whats was his temp? Have you wormed him at all since birth? Or do you mean not this fall as of yet?
     

  3. Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    I agree w/ Sherrie, the first thing I think of is coccidia but of course that's probably because I nearly lost two of my adult does to it. I know not every case of the runs will be coccidia but its always good to make note of it incase it is so you can catch it in time. I would get a fecal checked on him to see if worms or coccidia is the cause.
     
  4. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    Worm him, AND coccidia treat him and temp or not...he needs some banamine to slow his gut down. If he's running a temp then use the Nuflor.
    Kaye
     
  5. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    Agree with Kaye this is exactly what I did this past week with a buckling the banamine is for sure needed. Mine is fine now.
     
  6. Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    I just got back up...yes it is 1AM here....

    Temp was 104.9. I am using the purple tipped el cheapo brand thermometer from Wal*Mart and we have suspected it reads low, so I checked two other does in the pen with him. The 9 year old doe was 102.4 and the 2 year old doe was 102.1. So it looks like he is running about 3 degrees higher. I assume we have a fever here then?
    I wormed him with Cydectin. I don't think he has ever been wormed. I meant to worm him after moving him down to that pen, but doubt I did. I gave him some Banamine and some B-Com just to do something.
    His manure is strait liquid and he is straining to produce any. Still up and moving, but lethargic. He followed behind me as I walked in the pen and almost tried to run away when I went to get his temperature.
    So Nuflor? We have Excenel as well. Still run a treatment of Corid? He was raised on free choice Primer 1 which has a coccidialstat in it. He's been plump and healthy. As before his eyelids are nice and pink.
    I'd rather avoid Bo-Se if possible due to the chance of killing off swimmers. Though if he has a fever I am out of luck in that department anyways for a bit.

    Thanks!
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    Yes treat for cocci also and I am a firm believer in BoSe to build up the immune system get him started on antibiotics. and keep up the banamine
     
  8. ecftoggs

    ecftoggs New Member

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    We have had a similar issue with our buck and did all of the above mentioned plus gave him the anti-toxin and lactated ringers. We are now big believers in the lactated ringers as getting him hydrated will help out immensely.
    Mary
     
  9. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    Most definately with the LRS. He's drawing fluid from every part of his body to the intestine, then expelling it in the scours. He can't possibly drink enough fluid to keep himself hydrated...and feeling bad, probably won't.

    Which means his stomach is cramping =pain. I'd give him 1/2cc/100# twice a day of banamine.
    The fever can also be from intestinal irritation and/or infection of the stomach lining.
    Kaye
     
  10. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    Lactated Ringers are great. I keep them on hand.
    What color is his diarrhea? If it is greenish, I would suspect acidosis.
    I would give him some C&D antitoxin just in case. It can't hurt and may save him.
    I tend to hit them with everything in a case like this. I would also give him Probios and soda. These will not hurt.
    I would also do what others have suggested.
    I would only offer hay and plenty of water. Take away the grain for now, if he were mine.
    I wish you the best.
    Les
     
  11. Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    Thanks for all the insight!
    I picked up some LR at the vet's office after voting. I had given my last 2 bags to a local person who was having problems with scouring calves. That, of course, meant I did not have any yesterday when I found him scouring.
    I will be giving him some medicated scour stuff to try and slow him down. The stool stiffener in it still works well, even if the medication aspect is most likely kaput.
    He will get the LR, of course. Some Duramycin. Continue with the Banamine.
    He's up at the barn in a dry pen. Drank some warm water for me, but wasn't interested in the hay. His scours are dark brown. Seem like it may be a bit mroe solid today.
    Oh yeah. I'll also dose him with Corid.
    He is still up and moving around. Still fairly alert and inquisitive.
    I half wonder if he wan't an idiot and ate some Gympsom weed. No reason to since he had the hay.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    That is Alazne at a little over 4 months old.
     
  12. Re: Buck scouring-Help?

    When should I consider giving him straight Thiamin? I'm thinking I should have one that by now. Would it be the same dose as if one were treating Polio?
    He isn't really eating now and does not drink his water. I'm giving him Duramycin, Banamine, and Corid (17 ccs) once a day. He's had B-Com twice. Cydectin originally.
    He's drank a little bit of a milk/Sav A Calf mixture. The Sav A Calf is almost as old as I am, so the oxytet in it is most likely no longer, but the stiffener still works wonders. It's the only thing we use on the rare scours we see in calves.
    He's getting the LR, of course, and 15gs of ProBios about 45 minutes or more after his antibiotics shot.
    He nibbled some hay this evening, but not for long. His stomach is rolling, espeially after I make him drink some of the milk/SavACalf. I'm thinking I need to steal some cud from JayJay for him.
    He's up and moving around. He was climbing on the panel trying to get to Silverado's hay. He puts his face up for "kisses." He doesn't get hem with his stinky face but he is getting attention.
    His manure looks like molasses. Both color wise and consistency. Not much of it sicne he isn't eating. I'm guessing there is quite a bit of blood in there for it to be that color.

    This is really not what I needed. This has been probably the worst breeding season ever here. :sigh
     
  13. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?- More ??s

    Still no temp? Can you run a fecal? I am just the most horrid worrier and run fecals so I know, I hate guessing. When it's passed 48 hours and my guesses aren't working it's time for bloodwork and fecals by my vet. Vicki
     
  14. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?- More ??s

    What abt ecoli Vicki?
     
  15. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Re: Buck scouring-Help?- More ??s

    He would be running fever and likely down by now. If it was bacterial it would have progressed to overt illness. Vicki
     
  16. Re: Buck scouring-Help?- More ??s

    He's gone. :sniffle
    He went just like Gatling, the Boer buck I lost only a month or so ago. But Gatling was wormy and anemic. I screwed up in his case. I saw him eating Gympsom weed. Since nothing I did seemed to stop the progression in either case, dad is thinking that it was Gympsom weed poisoning in Alazne's case as well.
    We've run cattle with Gympsom weed on the farm for over 20 years and haven't had any issues. We've put 6 month old heifers in pens with gympsom weed...haven't had any problems. For that matter, the goats have run in pens with gympsom weed forr a good 6-8 years and we've not had any problems...but he was a sheltered bottle baby and Gatling...well he had some set backs early on in his life and wasn't very bright.

    I'm just soo crushed. I was so happy about Alazne. I loved everything about him. His pedigree was beautiful and what I wanted for my herd. He was so healthy and so pretty. He was sweetheart on top of it all. When I was giving him his LR he'd lift his head and lean it under my chin. He accepted everything I did to him with no fight, even though I knew he didn't want it.

    I don't think I've ever hoped for a buck this much yet, but I sure hope Legacy gives me a buck.....he'd be American, but with my herd, with no purebred does, it doesn't matter anyways. Alazne bred about half a dozen does, I think. At least I will have something. Unlike with Gat where I have nothing to show.
    His breeders moved back to California this year. They sold their keeper buck to the person who purchased the farm...the buyer I found. She doesn't want the buck, so I at least have a chance of having Full Monty's genetics...assuming they send the papers (sigh). He'll be my third Nubian black buck with white ears...
    http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=N001442247
    He is nowhere near Alazne and his pedigree, but it's better than nothing.

    I doubt it was E-coli...we'd be losing our calves if that were the case. We had E-coli four winters ago. We lost three calves and then got Ecolizer, a vaccine given in the first 24 hours of life. Used it on two calves and haven't used any since. That was in the middle of winter. The cows were calving around back where the goats were. We didn't lose any goats, but the problems were gone after we cleaned out the back area that spring. We always raise our buck kids with heifer calves. Generally from the time they are three months, until they graduate to a big boy pen.

    Rest in Peace my big boy.......
     
  17. I'm going back down to pull hairs, but Vicki mentioned on another post about the follicle being dead after the animal dies. Does this mean the hair will be no good for testing?
    He's been dead for hours.
     
  18. Little Moon

    Little Moon New Member

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    Oh Roseanna I am so sorry for your loss. I do hope he has already done his job and you get some beautiful kids out of him and that his good looks and temperament live on in his offspring.
     
  19. Rose

    Rose New Member

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  20. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    If you hand pull this do you need gloves?? I imagine you shouldn't burn it and stand down wind either.