Breeding diffrent lines

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Greylady, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. Greylady

    Greylady New Member

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    On bredding different lines ~ I read somewhere that some lines do not cross well. How do you know what lines do and those that do not?
     
  2. Cannon_farms

    Cannon_farms New Member

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    I asked this question several times and never was able to get much of a clean answer but I thought I would share what I have observed.
    Folks tend to buy into lines and not look so much as to the goat themselves they will cross a classic look with some of the newer looks which results in a goat that doesnt know which way genetically. is it supposed to be short and broad or tall and long. Also people that have the best goats are not afraid to line breed and use it to get the general type they are satisfied with then (as mentioned above) you do a complete outcross and it can take you in many different directions. However if you run with your awkward looking goats you might wind up with something nice later on.
    Some one on here told me once if you want consistency dont breed Nubians and I think that made them that much appealing to me.
    Good luck, looking forward to seeing what replies you will get.
     

  3. LittleBits

    LittleBits New Member

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    You pretty much just have to figure that out by trial and error. Some breeders will tell you what the bucks kids turned out like among the does he bred, so that will give you pointers on what lines went well, and what didn't
     
  4. LittleBits

    LittleBits New Member

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    But normally a bloodline has consisteny in conformation if they are any good, so after a few kids, you know if they cross well or not.
     
  5. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    You study websites and pedigrees of those doing it, not new folks or those who are not raising goats that do no have similar goals to you. In Nubians, studying Pruittville pedigrees is the best study out there in a tight high quality line bred herd. Hands-down. Vicki
     
  6. tlcnubians

    tlcnubians New Member

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    Yes, Pruittville is one, but not the only one. Visit Wingwood Farm, Pella's Triple C, Redwood Hills, Lynnhaven, Saada, Blissberry, Purple Thistle/Woeste Hoeve, Lakeshore, Foxwood, M's Sagebrush, My Enchanted Acres . . . there are a lot of lovely Nubians out there. If you get a chance to go to Louisville next year to watch the Nubians show at the ADGA National Show, it's one of the best places to see some of the top animals in the country and visit with their breeders. A totally invaluable experience!
     
  7. Greylady

    Greylady New Member

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    So for example, if wanting to improve on an area such as the udder , you would look for lines that have excellent udder appraisels, BUT how do you know if that particular line will breed well with a line you have?
     
  8. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    One of the best tools I have found is the adga pedigree thing that tells how inbred a certain breeding will be and what the top contributors are to inbreeding. I look at the top contributors' type evaluation and linear appraisals and pictures on the internet if I can find them.
    With my Lamanchas, I have been breeding since 2007. I started out with whatever does I could find (and afford! LOL) and whatever bucks I could get hold of. All the while looking on the internet and going to shows and getting an idea in my head about what I want from my goats and what type I like, as well as being true to the vision the original Lamancha developers had. I don't know a lot about Nubians but with Lamanchas there are definitely different styles/body types. Now as I look at my herd, I realize that they are mostly all related somehow. Cousins, siblings, aunts, etc. It has taken all this time and some amount (sometimes a lot) of inbreeding to get to a point where this new crop of kids actually has consistency. You can tell they are related, although there are a few oddballs. :) Now if were buck shopping (or doe shopping) I would have a much better idea of what would work and what wouldn't, whereas before, I was just trying to bring in animals with toes that all pointed in the right direction and all that basic stuff.
     
  9. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    I talk to the breeders. I happen to belong to the same goat club that Saada does and many of my goats carry their lines in their pedigrees. Laura is very helpful and tells me what lines don't cross well with hers. She's been able to observe my does at shows over the years and when I'm ready to purchase a new buck, she can sell me one that should cross well with what I have if one is available. Another thing you can do is to look on ADGA genetics at the pedigrees of goats who have been appraised. There is a section for traits which show if goats from that line will likely improve what you have.
     
  10. Greylady

    Greylady New Member

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    Thank you all for the information! Helps a lot! :)
     
  11. Necie@Lunamojo

    [email protected] Active Member

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    I agree with Kathie. Talk to the breeders of the lines you're using. I haven't talked to a breeder yet that doesn't like to 'talk goat'. :) And especially if you're interested in their lines. ;)
    One breeder I talked to said that when they crossed another line I'm using with their goats, that they got some lopsided udders... but when bred back to their lines, then they got some absolutely gorgeous animals. I'd have been tossing out great possibilities without knowing that. Another breeder told me that an outside line they used was a bit slower to mature, so if nice in all other areas to wait them out. Again, I'd have been letting go of animals that could mature into very nice big stock.
    Studying pedigrees is all fine (and FUN! :) ), but it's unlikely that you're going to use the exact same lines and come up with exactly what that breeder did. Best to talk one on one with the breeders your stock comes from and get first hand knowledge. It's priceless. ;)
     
  12. Tim Pruitt

    Tim Pruitt New Member

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    There are many good Nubians out there and that's a fact! However, which lines meld with which is what we all want to figure out. By speaking privately with breeders whose breeding program you admire you can get info that you won't get on a public forum. Other than that, you just have to study what the successful breedings that they have made and hope to replicate it. It is all a gamble as to how the genes will fall but lining up the genes increase your wins. If you want to be successful, find the style within the breed that you like and breed that type. Use bucks from that style from dams who show and appraise well. I like to choose bucks from doe lines that have been successful for generations and not one that is just a fluke or a chance occurrence or from a doe who has skipped a generation. Even a son of an excellent buck whose dam is mediocre is not going to give you the desired results. Mediocrity breeds more mediocrity.
     
  13. SANDQ

    SANDQ Senior Member

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    Its interesting to read someones comment " if you want conformity, dont breed Nubians " Ive just bought 5 Nubians, 2 twin sisters, which are alike in shape size and conformity, 2 other does which are completely different to the sisters and to each other in every way and a young buck again completely different in shape conformity roman nose, etc. I was so concerned that I had not bought a Nubian buck I went onto the internet it search of pictures of nubians.
    When doing my research I realized from looking at hundreds of pictures of nubians there was no conformity at all in the breed and as for colour anything goes. The young buck comes from a herd of nubians so therefore he is nubian, but how so different. I read on another goat forum about a nubian breeder who had a young buck born from pure bred nubian parents ask why my buck has no roman nose when does it develop? ( like mine ) The answer she got was basically they come out like that sometimes dont worry nubians are not conformists!
     
  14. swgoats

    swgoats Active Member

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    Roman noses seem a stronger feature than ears from what I can tell. Sometimes even in purebreds the ears are not as correct as they should be, but most have a strong roman nose. Breeding minis the earliest generations will have straight noses, but the roman noses don't take long to appear, especially if you can use at least one parent with a strong nose.
     
  15. dragonlair

    dragonlair Active Member

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    My Nubian buck, and his daughters, don't get the honking Roman nose until they are over a year old, then it starts to grow. He has quite the banana nose, but his 2 Lamancha crossed daughters really really have the Roman nose, which looks very funny with elf ears. Sometimes the desired traits (and some undesirable) don't show up until they are closer to maturity.