breeding advice...

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by chewie, Nov 4, 2008.

  1. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    i had thought to breed with a meat type buck next year to fill my freezer. but someone has recently said that doing so may make for less milk production? does anyone else have this experience? it seems odd, but well, stranger things have happened!

    if this is the case, i am rethinking breeding meat next year, and since this year is a nub. buck, i may go saanen next year. i'm only trying to breed for family milkers, nothing showing but 4H. i plan to keep saanen and nubian does. now that i've been doing more looking/learning, i dont' think my nub buck is all that much to see--his topline is not very good, and he's got posty back legs. his nose isn't all that roman, and his ears aren't real long either, tho that's my least issue with him. he is polled which may bring on a whole host of new issues. his mother had good production, so the breeder said, but her bag wasnt' the prettiest. good handles tho., nice size which i like since some of my currents have kinda small ones. (my hands are big, so those nice big handles are what i like!)

    knowing my goals (which really aren't very lofty!) i'd like some advice on what to start looking for for next year. at my rate, it'll take me that long to figure out! or am i going the wrong direction anyhow?
     
  2. stoneyheightsfarm

    stoneyheightsfarm New Member

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    "but someone has recently said that doing so may make for less milk production? "

    I read a study somewhere... gosh, I'd have to find it... about the choice of sire not only affecting his daughters' milk production, but the dam's as well. Something to do with his DNA in the placenta where the initial hormones stimulating the production of milk are produced and that setting up to some degree the quantity and quality of milk produced.

    I know you really have to know the source, and some studies are not that good, so all that is really of little help. I do quote that one, though, and tell my husband that b/c his hormones are in my placenta, and the placenta produces the hormones that cause morning sickness, he is to blame for my morning sickness! ;) My mother in law confirms that one. :)
     

  3. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    The studies do say that, but I have to say that that hasn't happened at our house.

    Case in point: Anika (Saanen) was bred Boer as a First Freshener and then bred Saanen this year. She peaked at 15.5 lbs at 4 weeks freshened and kept that pace until 4 months fresh, when she dropped to 14 lbs/day and finally to 12 lbs a day. She is 7 1/2 months fresh and has recently been bred. Currently giving 11 lbs/day.

    I don't think the Boer buck had a negative impact on her milk production! :lol

    If you can't get a nice Saanen buck (or a better Nubian buck) then I think it is legit to breed Boer so you can eat the kids - no temptation to keep lesser stock - there will be more meat and it will taste better too.

    BTW, we know a lot of top breeders over here who routinely breed their FF Boer (all but one or two) to keep their #s down until they see how the doe freshens. Doesn't seem to interfere with their does milk either (Elsie Hausman and her beautiful milking Toggs comes to mind).

    Camille
    Personally, I think you should switch to those beautiful Saanens. :rofl
     
  4. coso

    coso Guest

  5. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    David Funk put a lot of research into this project...but, to each his own.

    I also don't believe it will effect the doe in later pregnancies or lactations.
    :rofl There's still an old wives tale about a purebred dog being bred to mutts ruins her for the rest of her life in having purebred puppies. Now, how ridiculous is that!?

    If you're going to raise recorded grades...why not invest in a good buck with good conformation to go along with the hybrid vigor? Don't just use a "b illy" to freshen the does.
    Kaye
     
  6. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    "I also don't believe it will effect the doe in later pregnancies or lactations."

    Okay, this makes sense to me intuitively, Kaye. Thank you for the clarification. And this truly is a personal choice. For myself, if I don't have my FF Saanens breaking records, I don't mind (and am rather relieved). But I have some production to give, as it were.

    I do agree that you should breed the best buck you can find and rather than use an inferior Nubian buck, breeding Boer would be a better choice. After all, you don't want to go backward! For yourself, or others. Camille
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    my little experience was last yr and bred some of my best producers (mini manchas) to a boer buck. Their production was quite a bit down from previous years.
     
  8. Cotton Eyed Does

    Cotton Eyed Does New Member

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    I've done it both ways and I can't see a difference either direction. I've bred a boer doe with an Alpine buck and I've bred a Nubian doe with a boer buck. No difference when I changed it back around the next time.
     
  9. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    thanks for the info., that is something to think about, the article was very interesting.

    i don't think my guy is too bad, just have learned some over the year, and think there is better and starting to shop around to see what i could do for next year. he's not just a 'billy', he does have some nice points. just thought if i bred meat i'd have more for the freezer next time round, but i think i may get a nice dairy buck instead, have those nice experimental or recorded grades. those can go in the freezer too, right?

    so now to figure out to breed nub or saanen next year?!
     
  10. FRW

    FRW New Member

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    It depends at what age you are wanting to butcher the kids and put the meat in your freezer.
    I have friend in FL. that raises only purebred show Boers and when I told him the weight of my Nubian's at 6 mths they out weighed his Boers.
    I would rather breed to the type of animals I am wanting to focus on and then if you are wanting meat in your freezer pick your best and put the rest in the freezer.Some use this as a selective culling and a way to provide good meat that is not full of hormones for their family.
    I am not sure if you are testing for CAE etc but my friend only AI's his does to outside bucks because he says very few herds are CAE and CL free . He had to cull ruthlessly to get a CAE and CL free herd. He ships out of the country allot.

    I hope this helped!!
     
  11. chewie

    chewie New Member

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    i liked the suggestion from another thread about taking the kids around 3 months old and quartering them for freezer. i just thought breeding boer next year would do better for this, but its sounding as if i'd be better off just getting a better dairy buck and as you just said, culling all but the very best, that way i'd have good dairy stock and a use for the extras. i am only doing this on a very small scale, so trying not to get too complicated!

    i won't use an 'outside' buck tho., nothing near me i'd want around my place, so i'll have to buy a buckling early in the year for the fall's breedings. hence the questions now, so i can start looking/putting in a reserve if necessary. thanks for all the imput, its nice having diff ideas to think over.
     
  12. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Chris if your farm isn't dependant on raising out dairy replacements or breeding stock sales, than the use of a boer buck on does you have no use for the kids out of for dairy, and only want meat...use a boer. Those kids will race to 60 pounds a several months old and you can butcher with 3 or 4 times the meat on the carcass. Now if you are going to butcher as yearlings etc...than no it's not worth it. But the difference on shear meat on the body of weaned kids, you can't do better than boer. Vicki
     
  13. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    I agree with Vicki. A dairy kid at 60 lbs. doesn't have as much meat as a Boer at 60 lbs. Of course what you feed, how you manage our goats will influence the weight gain as well. Nothing like a milky Boer doe to pack on the pounds...

    Another reason to breed Boer is that the meat tastes much better than Dairy kids.

    Camille
     
  14. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Oh really? better tastin. Then the problem becomes finding a close by Boer buck that's disease free.