Babies Dying...any help appreciated..

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Chaty, Jun 24, 2008.

  1. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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    To start this off I have had 3 does to kid lately and the babies are born with no problems. Look healthy and act that way also...nursing fine. After about 2 days they start getting really wobbly and cant stand or nurse. I have rehydrated them and given them baking soda and fort.B complex, I am syringe feeding them also. It seems the largest of the twins is the 1's that have the most problems and those are the 1's I lose no matter what I try or do. The littlest so far are hanging on. I have thrown the kitchen sink into them as I am at a loss as to what this is and why its happening. No other problems with the others that have kidded this year and nothing has changed as far as the feed or minerals.
    THis puzzle is really driving me crazy. I have lost 3 babies so far and 2 are doing good and 1 I just started working with and last nite we lost his sister this morning. I dont know what else to do....Any help will be greatly appreciated...Thanks Kathy
     
  2. susie

    susie New Member

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    Kathy-
    how heartbreaking- I am going through something similar except my babies are 2 months old. And it starts out with the wobbles, but ends up being belly pain-- currently treating one aggressively for enterotoxemia... not sure if she'll make it. But mine are bottle babies- are yours?
    Are you in a selenium deficient area? do you supplement?
    take care,
    Susie
     

  3. Patty13637

    Patty13637 New Member

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    Are you boosting the does 2 weeks before due date with cd/t ? Bo-se ?

    Give bo-se at birth.

    Patty
     
  4. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    What does the kitchen sink include?

    We had something sort of similar with a few kids - about 10 days old. Keep up the baking soda. We gave Antitoxin. Banamine 1/2 dose AM and PM. Pepto Bismol with each bottle. Excenel (1cc/50 lb - I don't use less than 1/2 cc, no matter the weight.)

    Lost two, saved 5. Some had it worse than the others. The two we lost didn't look sick at all - just dead in the AM. Treated kids recovered. Keep them warm too.

    Keep trying. Not sure what ours had - e.coli, perhaps? Ours all were up to date with shots etc. Excenel/Naxcel seemed to make a big difference too.

    Sorry you are going through this. Keep trying.

    Camille
     
  5. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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    Mine all are being dam raised and yes they all had the shots and boosters. I am still doing the BS on the newest 1 as he is improving but lost his sister this AM. They have had FOrt. B complex and banamine and rehydration, no pepto yet. I have had to give enemas just plain warm water with results also. Yep fine 1 day and not the next. 1 baby was doing great and when I went out the next morning she was dead. I appreciate all the help as I have been battleing this for 3 weeks now and now with the newest still hanging in there. Thanks again...
     
  6. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    To start with...are you removing the plug from the dam's teats at birth? Checking udders to make sure nothing is wrong with the dam?

    Another thing is to start the kids on Naxcel when they get sick. 1/2cc. Give the Bo-Se at birth. 1/2cc.
    Are any of these kids showing scours?

    Are these Boers?
    Kaye
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    They are ND Kaye
    am wondering abt ecoli here
     
  8. eliya

    eliya New Member

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    Another question here, did you dip their cords in iodine at birth? I have a couple kids in the past that have had problems because I forgot to dip them or wasn't there to do it. I saved one that had navel ill and lost another who got something else that we aren't sure what it was. That one went downhill so fast there was nothing we could do. Worked on her all day but no success.

    Are there any other symptoms besides being weak and wobbly?

    I hope you are able to figure this out soon.
     
  9. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

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    Kaye has a good point about checking the plugs in the dam's teats. Have you felt their bellies to be sure they are actually getting enough to eat? If so, the thing I'd do in my herd would be to be sure they're pooping and have passed their meconium, give BoSe. baking soda, Pepto and if I suspected E coli, Excenel. I hope you get to the bottom of this. Kathie
     
  10. Chaty

    Chaty New Member

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    I was there at the birth and I unlpug the teats and check to make sure its colostrum. I check on them thru the nite and day and I dip cords and feet when they are born with Iodine. They dont have the scours either. They do get their Bo-se and I wait with them till the mecuonium is passed also. Nothin has changed here as to feed and water and minerals all is the same this just started happening with theses last 3 does and their kids. My other does did just fine and the kids are groing great and no problems. Yep checked the navels for navel ill and its fine too. I am just at a loss as to what this could be....Thanks for all the suggestions and most of them I have tried and still lost babies. I Thank ya'll for the suggestions...
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    It sort of sounds like a run in with entero B....it was about the same time that all the FKS started, which I think is entero B. It seems to come this time of the year, lots of young does kidding so colostrum isn't the greatest, one of the pitfalls of dam raising, at the very least tube some older does colostrum into these kids out of very young dams. Especially if you don't vaccinate. Floppy Kid is a syndrom, not a disease....you have to also think that because of the time of year it is also from exhausted breeders so the kids aren't getting the quality of care others got earlier in the year. Something sets up acidosis in the stomach, why mylanta, pepto etc...is really the cure for this. We need someone to send a newly ailing kid just coming down with what killed others in for necropsy before the kid is dead.

    Why they fail like this nobody yet knows...but the cause of this floppy kid has to be something we are simply overlooking. It can't be an overeating thing Susie because in herds that full feed milk, you never see this even during the summer.

    I do think it is from lack of a schedule, change, maybe right as colostrum as often as you can moves to milk 3 times a day, when the tummy is empty acids build up. Vicki
     
  12. lyceum

    lyceum Guest

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    We have had 8 kids that have had similar symptoms. Kids were out of does ranging from 1-4 year old. Almost all were bottle fed 4 times a day, navels dipped, Bo-Se, etc. Any kids that were left on mom (3 year old) were checked at least 4 times a day to make sure that they were eating. We have only lost one so far. The others were saved with just baking soda. Antibiotics, pepto and Bo-Se have done us no good. Once we start baking soda, within 12 hours after the first dose, they will poop a whole bunch and start to perk up and eat better.

    This did not start until April kiddings. We are not doing anything different than we did in Jan/Feb/March with these kids. We have had does kid every year for the last 7-8 years in the summer without any problems. All colostrum used has been from older does from earlier in the year. It is not every kid either. Out of a group of 5, only 2 had this problem. They come down with it between 7-12 days.

    The twins that were on mom had just come down with the symptoms mid-day Monday, died Monday night and was sent to Purdue University for Necropsy 1st thing the next morning by our Purdue vet (who specializes in Goats). We have had kids on death's door and were able to pull them out of it with baking soda, so do not give up.

    I will post necropsy results as soon as we have them.

    Carisa
     
  13. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Maybe we should be using the covexin 8 on our does.

    Carisa please do post the results this could help us all.
     
  14. susie

    susie New Member

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    Carisa-
    how much baking soda are you giving?
    thx
    susie
     
  15. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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  16. lyceum

    lyceum Guest

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    Sondra-I will definitely post necropsy results, I just hope that they are able to find out something to help us all out.

    Susie-Mom just puts some in. The little girl right now is getting 1/4-1/3 tsp in each bottle. We have been giving it until they are acting normal and eating every bottle again. Then, once a day just to make sure that whatever it is doesn't come back.

    We have 4 more babies that have not reached that age yet, we hope that they luck out and do not have issues. Funny thing is that these kids are from moms that are in 2 completely different locations. Babies come straigt to the house.

    Carisa
     
  17. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    Sondra,

    Why the Covexin 8?

    I agree that the baking soda is key - and every two hours. Time between doses seems to have an impact on how quickly the kid turns around.

    For us, the excenel/pepto bismol/ banamine seemed to help quite a bit because most (but not all!) moved into a smelly e-coli type of poop. The two that died never got to the runny poop stage. (oh and 1 of the 5 that did make it never got the runs either, just to make you completely unsure of yourself when trying to figure out what was going on). Makes me wonder if e-coli set up the acidosis, but no sign of the e-coli (poop). Some kids succumbed to the acidosis before the runny smelly poop started. Others that made it through the initial acidosis stage, then had to contend with the e-coli.

    Ours happened in late February/March and we have excellent management - but sure weren't ready for what came in this Spring. Also seemed selective - no easily identifiable reason why this one got it, and this one didn't.

    Camille
    P.S. we go with 2 large pinches of baking soda directly in the mouth (sometimes add a little water to their mouth if too pasty) every 2 hours.
     
  18. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Believe the covexin 8 has all the stuff in it rather than just the C & D has the B and tetanus and some other stuff. I just bought some as they were out of the CD/T
     
  19. hamilton40

    hamilton40 New Member

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    I had a problem about 3 months ago that sounds just like this, One of our does had twins, A boy and a girl, We bottle fed them and at day 3 or 4 the boy stopped eating, got wobbly, and his belly seamed hard. We had no idea of what was going on or what to do so I called the lady I got the dame from (She has been raising and showing Nubians for 30 + years) and she suggested giving him plain yogurt. We got maybe 1 to 1 1/2 tsp in him that night and in the morning he started eating great and he has been doing good since then. I don't know if this will help or not but it should not hurt. good luck.