Anyone know about Distillers Grains?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by D Bar J Acres, Feb 21, 2008.

  1. D Bar J Acres

    D Bar J Acres New Member

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    The dairy farmer that I keep books for feeds his cattle Dry Distillers Grains in his TMR rations. I don't feed many of my goats grain (nigies, and just those that are nursing, growing or bucks during rut) and then they get a pound or less per day. For almost 2 years I was feeding a mill mix that I really liked, roughly 50% oats, 25% cracked corn, and a protein pellet with hardly any molasses at all on it. Well, they upped the molasses the last 2 bags, and I cut in more oats to take care of that. They manufacture the feed for the local goat (commercial) dairies, so the bag I buy once a month doesn't really matter to them.

    So, I've gone to mixing my own - 50% oats, 25% cracked corn, 25% Calf Manna. and mix 200 lbs at a time. $45.00 per batch

    Dried distillers is 26% protein and 9% fat. This comes from an ethanol plant 30 miles away from us. Kirk buys a semi load at at a time (25T) and I just broke down what it'd be per pound and it's .06 (6 cents). I can buy whatever I want from him at his cost (he only lives a mile away too). I'm wondering if I'd go to 75% oats and 25% distillers if that'd be a good idea - cost would be $21/200 lbs? It'd come out at 14.75% protein. From all the reading I've found on it, it is high in b-vitamins, highly palatible and has yeast cultures in it. Plus, it's cheap. I can't find anything specifically on dairy goats, just meat and of course cattle and swine. It says you can use distillers for up to 25% of a feed ration - and they are considering that a controlled, total mixed ration - no forage or hay included. I always have out free choice grass mixed (14% hay) and 1lb of alfalfa pellets per doe/day and then whoever gets grain. Plus Sweetlix Meat Maker free choice, mixed with kelp.

    Any ideas, comments? Thanks for your time!
     
  2. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    Be VERY CAREFUL of listo in the grain. It's shipped wet...think mold!
    I used it for a while years ago...it didn't do a darn thing for the goats...then I started seeing little white spots in it. The dairyman I was getting it from had a couple cows go down with listo...he stopped after he got all he bought used up. Mine went into the ditch across the road.
    I know it's used a lot up north (cow dairies)...but they don't have our humidity. Same with silage. Silage is hard to do in the south.
    Kaye
     

  3. D Bar J Acres

    D Bar J Acres New Member

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    Thanks Kaye for the warning. This is a product from the plant 30 miles from us and it's dried there as well.

    I'm really hoping it's a good product. hmmm...
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    OK this is one of those non helps :) Land & Livestock Post is a newpaper I get about every 2 weeks or so. It's free for signing up and always has excellent articles for my area, studies etc.... Feb 19th is the paper today so it was the one before this...I already sent it to someone I am having this distrillers grain conversation with already, it likely will be everywhere and wanted a headsup on it. Anyway this last newspaper had an article on a study that was starting up....1-800-299-7355 is there number perhaps you could get a copy of that paper and read it? Vicki
     
  5. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :sigh And it said what????...Vicki?
    I'm going on experience from uuummm...20 yrs. ago??
    Kaye
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    That there is a study being conducted :) Told you it was no help!!! vicki
     
  7. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :really Bet ya' think that was funny???

    HEY, KEN in MO....where are you??????
    Kaye
     
  8. OH...the great debate on distiller's grain. Its cheap so lets feed the heck out of it!

    Distillers grain is just a grain by-product, it is the carbs of the corn. Get to boost up protien, adds a little fat...lower feed cost. What is the trade off's?

    The biggest one I have found, it lower the feed cost. If used in small amounts its great. But, fed at higher amounts...feed sawdust. The animal can take a small feeding of distillers and do well on it. They love to eat it and its easy feed for them to digest. Get the added portien in the feeds...so more milk production.

    The downsides of distiller's:

    MOLD!!!!! That stuff will mold faster than anything I have ever seen in my life. Just humid conditions will make that stuff mold over night. The bad part about that...its 99% of the time white mold. Then you have a bad batch of feed.

    Price...its cheap. Face it...right now on the commidty markets you can buy all the distillers you want at little under $50 a ton. SO, what do people do...they over feed it BIG TIME. With cattle it is recommoded not to feed over 20% of the grain ration with distillers. While its great in protien there is hardly any fiber left in that stuff at all.

    Yeast...What does bread take to rise? The ruman is the prefect condition to make bread....warm temps, lots of humidty. So, what do you get...a goat with bread in the rumen. What does yeast put out as a by-product? Alcohol...an acid. What happens then...no rumen mircobes to digest anything. They are all killed by the alcohol that is put off by the yeast. Then you get in DA's and all that....

    Lower fat tests...it does not have the right ratio of NDF and ADF(Nutural Digestable Fiber and Acid Digestable Fiber) That is what makes the by-pass proteins to get the butter fat up in the milk. So you might under into inverted fat test. Protein is higher than the fat test. Then it goes back to the yeast as above.

    With all that said...you have to look at are you willing to let the goats health go a little bit for cheaper feed? If you mix it at 75% oats and 25% distillers...then you are leaving out the energy in the ration. Oats while good feed...not the best when it comes to energy. That is why dairies if they feed distillers still keep the corn in the ration. Ask to see what his ration is...that will give you an idea of what level he is feeding his cows.

    You said no forage in the TMR(Ttal Mixed Ration)? He does not feed corn silage...alfalfa hayage....grasslage? If that is the case he does a poor job at getting a ration mixed. With a TMR set up....most of the time its about 40% roughages(silages, haylages, dry hay) and 60% concentrates(grains, by-products, protiens). That is on the high range, most are not doing 60% forages and 40% concentrates. They have found better reproduction and rumen health by changing it to a 60/40.

    All you have to do is weigh the pro and cons of what you willing to give up and what you are willing to live with. That is the best way to look at it.

    ken in MO
     
  9. Kaye White

    Kaye White New Member

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    :biggrin I just knew he'd have the answer.

    Now, after what he just typed.....Nope, I'd pass! Once case of listo from mold and you've wiped out the savings you had by feeding the cheap feed, with medications and possible loss of a doe or two.
    Lots of things *look* good on paper...but in reality, they just aren't worth the risk. :sigh
    Kaye
     
  10. D Bar J Acres

    D Bar J Acres New Member

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    Wow, Ken is a guy that gets down to the nitty gritty facts! Thank you. You've just made up my mind. I don't feed the goats much grain, so it's not really that big of a deal, but really was hoping to mix it into my chicken feed, that stuff is getting ridiculously priced! But I'm not gonna do it at all.

    By the TMR mix, I was meaning that the up to 25% max of distillers recommended is included into the what the animal eats in a total day. Where as if I was to mix 75% oats and 25% DDG, yes, I'd be at the "max" in that sense, but it's in truth way diluted, as I have hay, pellets (and pasture in season) that would cut that way down. Where people that feed their animals with a TMR, and they have no other access to hays, silages, pasture, etc. I'm not sure what Kirk's TMR mix is, but it is cut with alfalfa, silage, mineral, soybean meal, fat and DDG. He's also one of those people (altho I do like him, I don't agree with this) that uses Posilac on his cows, so he really pushes them and uses them up real fast. And I do know from paying the vet bill that he's got a fair amount of DA's as well, but I have no idea on what's "normal" in a 300 cow free-stall dairy.

    It's actually odd what some farmers on big dairies feed their cattle. Animal fat is one thing I just can't understand for an herbivore. It's just "not right", and I don't see how they can digest it. But some of the big 1000 + cow dairies we know of feed potatoes, chocolate, bakery goods, all kinds of crap like that for filler.

    Thanks again, Jenny
     
  11. Jenny,

    When dairies use BST(posilac) they will not get the added milk if they dont feed for the added milk. Most of the time all that is gained on milk production with the use of BST is about 10% of total milk production. It really does not "burn out" the cow any faster. It adds milk to the line, but if the feeding program is not there then there will be no added milk in the line. The animal has to take it in for them to be able to produce the milk. Milk production and Feed intake are directly linked to each other. You can get a cow/goat to produce at the genetic high if the feed is not there for them to be able to with stand the high production.

    There has been research for years on the differences between Genetic and Management milk levels. They have found that management makes up the higher precentage of milk being produced. It is said that, milk is 15% genetic and 85% management. That is why when buying new animals you want to buy animals that are above the herd mate deviation. That means that they will produce above your herd milk weights.

    The feeding of food chain by-products have been around for years. Infact they are more than just fillers. There are rations that are balanced for the addition of the by-products. Take bread for example...all bread is really is flour. Flour is high in carbs...that makes an increase in energy in the diet. Potatoes....same thing....starch. We had a candy factory in town for years and we fed the second's off of their production line for about 20 years. It was all hard candy...sugar...we did not have to add molasses in the feed then to get the sugar content up to the right level. When dealing with animal diet you have not to look at what form it is feed in but, more what is it made out of. There is alot of FREE by-products that are giving away that you can make great use out of for livestock feed. Right now, we are feeding the less than sellable vegitables to sheep. That cuts down on the amount of grain and hay that they need. Yet, they are able to hold body condition during the winter.

    What is the difference between food humans eat and what the animals eat? Nothing, they are just processed when we get them. But, are just animal feed in different forms.

    Ken in MO