Another Update on Maria

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by trnubian, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    If you all remember Maria she is my older nubian doe who had UC really bad and has had problems with Milk fever in the past.

    Well she is still here and her eyes still are bright, just very thin. (To give you an idea of what she looks like go to this st enad she is a #2 on body score. http://www.goatworld.com/articles/management/bodycondition.shtml) I had her on Ammonium Chloride for about a month and then I took her off of it. She was gettting thinner and thinner the entire time she was on it. The vet had me giving her 5 teaspoons of ammonium chloride powder every day (2 grams of ammonium chloride per teaspoon). She was fine with it for the first 3 weeks. I would mix it in apple sauce and give it to her on a graham cracker. She looked forward to it. (It smells like really strong peppermint.) The last week she would refuse to eat it and I had to drench her with it.

    Have you ever gotten any of that stuff on your skin when it has ben in contact with water or liquid? It burns! I now know why she was starting to refuse it. I wonder what that was doing to her stomach?? I gave it to her another week. I then stopped and she started gaining a little bit of weight.

    She started refusing oats that I was giving her. So I offered some fairly fine cracked corn. She loved that for awhile, stopped eating that for a few days and now she will nibble at it every now and then.
    I give Wiski (her daughter from this year who is staying with her) about 2 pounds of a mix that I made of oats, calf manna, BOSS and Beet pulp. Maria picks at that a little bit when she feels the need I guess. They have free choice Manna Pro Goat minerals and alfalfa hay.

    I wormed Wiski with Valbazen 10 days apart and I wormed Maria with Safe-Guard 10 days apart (that was the very last of November. Their eyelids still look a little bit pale so I may worm again with QUEST here soon. I hate shoving a lot of drugs down their throats especially with Maria being the way she is. Using Quest kind of scares me.

    It has been SOOO cold here these last 2 days. Temperatures at 0 or below with windchills down to -27. I take warm water out for them 2 times a day and she has 2 sweaters on, she still shivers a little. Wiski is fine so far with the cold.

    But anyway I thought I would let you all know what was going on. I hope everyone is having a good Christmas season.
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Geeze Amanda there is so much wrong with your vets advice on treating your doe it's shocking she is still alive.

    First I would highly question a doe having UC, sure she could have a urinary tract infection or kidney stones, but Urinary Calculi? Their utrethra is so big the idea that stones could be a problem is minimal. The overt overdose of amounts...shoot to treat successfully bucks, you use 1 tablespoon every 4 hours or so for one day, if the stone doesn't pass it's not going it, you can't keep it up for very long until you have to go down to the 1 teaspoon per head per day. With AC in the grain of nearly all meat goats, that is how safe it is at that dosage.

    Then you are worming with Valbazen and Safeguard? What worms do they have that those would even work?

    Her rumen is shot, oats or finely ground corn isn't going to help, she needs really good grass and alfalfa hay, now isn't even the time to use alfalfa pellets, if you can't get alfalfa hay use the dehydrated baled chopped alfalfa. She will shiver because her rumen is sluggish, she doesn't have enough roughage in it to fire it up to keep herself warm. She won't eat her grain because it hurts her stomach to eat it because her bacteria is dead and the grain sits there.

    Get some cud from your better doe, stop using the AC. Fill your doe up with hay and jucie from the cud as often as you can. Give her bo-se to improve her immunity and probiotics for her gut. Yogurt with active cultures, or if you make yogurt just use your acidopholius by itself to innoculate her rumen. Do you make keifer? That helps also. No grain period.....now you can use BOSS but not as much as she wants. B vitamins....treat her as if she has polio (goatkeeping 101) so get thiamin from the vet or use Fortefied B complex. Bring her brush or leaves or anything you have that isn't frozen :) Keep her jacketed until she is eating her hay agressively. Sorry this is happening to you over the Holidays.

    Vicki
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Boy do I ever agree with Vicki on this!!
     
  4. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    I meant Kidney stones... I'm sorry. My other option to teat her problem was to send her to Purdue to do surgery but I can't afford that so this is my other option of tratment that they gave me.
    I haven't been using the AC for about 3 weeks now.

    How do you steal cud? I mean I know you have to wait until the other doe is chewing it but then what? What should I use to get it out and do I use the actual cud or just the juice? I do have fortified Vit. B complex. How much and how often should I give that? Orally or sub Q? I just bought some Manna Pro probiotic paste for the horse and goats and I can get yogurt. How often should I give her the yogurt and cud?

    She refuses BOSS... pretty much anything.

    Valbazen and Safe-guard are still working here according to fecals...should I still worm her with Quest with her being so down?

    I am feeding a really nice 2nd cutting alfalfa hay free choice. Have been since mid July. I am going to get a decent bale of grass hay to offer as well and see if I can't get her to eat more. She seems to like a variety.

    I have no leafy stuff. It is long since gone. lol

    Oh and just o mention this, she started refusing grain long ago. I haven't been able to get her to eat it like she should since early last spring.

    Thanks for the help! Keep it coming I need all the ideas I can get.
     
  5. Whitney

    Whitney Member

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    Does she have any teeth issues that would affect her ability to eat grain?
     
  6. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    Not that I know of. I have felt along her cheeks and looked in there and she seems fine. I can even hear her crunching the grain when she does eat it.
     
  7. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    you need to worm her with quest or cydectin probiotics once or twice a day. Fortified B Complex sq I personally would give her a 3 cc shot twice a day. to steal a cud, tho I have not done it, but have heard /read you use a piece of pvc pipe to hold the other goats mouth open so you can grab it then I guess shove it in the sick goats mouth.
     
  8. I would give probiotics twice a day.

    I did that with Hannah the last two times she was down with Coccidia. Seemed to help her. :)

    Hope Maria starts feeling better soon!
     
  9. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    Ok thanks guys! I was thinking about doing the probiotic paste once a day and the yogurt once a day. What do you think? I will attempt to steal some cud. That should be interesting.... :/
     
  10. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats Active Member

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    Stealing a cud isn't that easy. They are selfish with it! I used a spoon. I waited for someone to get up a cud then I lept on her and used the spoon to get it out so I wouldn't get bitten. It was worth it, though, because it seemed like it relit her fire, so to speak.
     
  11. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Can you imagine the horror of the doe, "Cud stealing!" cud stealer that has to be a dirty word in goatese