Alfalfa Scours in 10 wk old? or something else?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by tjgoatgirl, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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    Hi All. I just brought home a new baby doeling on 5/16 who had just gotten over Coccidia at her previous owners home. She had been treated with Di-Methox, then Corid for 7 additional days and had normal poop when she came here. She was 7 weeks old. 2 days after being here, she got scours............I figured she may have contracted a different strain of Coccidia here as I also have 2 (at that time 9 week olds) who I'd just treated with Albon for Coccidia/Coccidia prevention..............so I took a fecal to Vet, and sure enough......significant Coccidia present.

    Gave Albon 5% suspension for 5 days (this is the yellow sticky butterscotch stuff) and then returned the fecal to vet. Coccidia was gone. 3 stomach worm eggs. Wormed with Ivermectin 1% cattle injectable (3cc per 100 per Vicki) so 1/2 cc for her ...........that was back on 5/27/08.

    She is eating grain, never would take a bottle since coming here so essentially weaned at 7 weeks old...........I gave her Nutridrench and probios the first week she was here while retreating her Coccidiosis.

    Anyway, will eat grain, grass hay, alfalfa mix grass hay (which is new 1st cutting and maybe still a little droopy), Standlee compressed, chopped alfalfa 100% and of course grass/weeds/forage.

    Her poop was like dog poop after the Coccidiosis treatment here and worming, but today I noticed it's all green fibery-looking stuck to her little white butt...........I would not say liquid, but not dog-poop consistency now either.

    She's been overdosed on Cocci treatments and wormed, CDT vaccinated 2 times so far and due in a week or two for her 3rd. Weaned at 7 weeks old. I am thinking the scouring is from the various greens she's eating here and lots of rain, soggy hay, etc. ???????

    Everyday I go out to look at the little ones and there seems to be a new problem or another variation of the "same old" problem again! I am gettting seriously discouraged here.

    What would be the next step in your-all's opinions?

    P.S. I also have a buck (2 years old) whose scur is growing into his head ......I've had him since Feb. and they were cut back and filed or something, but now it's heading back around and I need to address it quickly........I'll make a separate post :/

    Please send opinions folks! I'd SO appreciate it. :?
     
  2. susie

    susie New Member

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    How about giving her some more probiotics and see if that just doesn't help ?

    Susie
     

  3. Karen Bailey

    Karen Bailey New Member

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    To me it sounds like the bouts of coccidia have damaged her intestines and she's not processing her food as efficiently as she should. You will have to baby her along, and she might become a nice brood doe passing along her genetics, but she may never be as productive as her potential.

    I had one like this. She almost died of coccidia twice, but did recover from that. At 8 years old she is stunted in her growth, has somewhat of a pot-bellied appearance, and will never produce much milk. Why do I keep her? Because her kids are as awesome as she should have been, and I am very attached to her after bringing her through all that. :/
     
  4. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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    Susie, I am definitely going to try probiotics again starting today. I was kind of thinking it certainly couldn't hurt.

    Karen, thanks for sharing your experiences. THis little doeling is darling and docile and I hope someday, I look at her kids and all this is behind us............ :/
     
  5. Ravens Haven

    Ravens Haven New Member

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    Did I read this right, she was weaned at 7 weeks old?

    Not a good thing at all..we wean any where from 12-20 weeks old not 7 weeks old.

    I hope she starts feeling better soon.

    Autumn
     
  6. tjgoatgirl

    tjgoatgirl New Member

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    Autumn, yes ...you read it right.............She came here at 7 weeks old and WOULD NOT IN ANY WAY take a bottle NO MATTER WHAT! I tried 3 x per day for 7 days. I tried Milk Replacer and then Whole Cow's Milk.....she simply refuses. My vet said not to force.........that as long as they're drinking water, eating hay and grain and grass, they'll be okay. I agree it's not ideal, but short of taking her back to her mother (in a diff. city altogether) it's the only thing.

    However, I was under the impression that 8 weeks is really the beginning weaning age....at least several sources including the back of the milk replacer jug, several goat books, and the few folks I know who breed/sell here in MO agree. I personally let dam-raised kids stay on Mom until she kicks them off, and my agreeable bottle babies, I feed until about 12 weeks, but only 1 12-oz. bottle per day from 8-12 weeks to start getting them used to weaning.

    Is this REALLY wrong? Should I go out and try to force feed her now? She's 10 weeks old now.............but with the scouring right now............and the added stress of being "force" fed or attempting to "force" her, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to begin again.

    Any other opinions out there? :help
     
  7. susie

    susie New Member

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    JMO--
    I think milk is very VERY important to kids' health-- that being said, I also have a baby that would not/WILL NOT take a bottle since she came here ( born mid april- got her a couple of weeks ago) -- she's been doing fine-- she will drink milk out of a bowl--not much, maybe 5 ounces each time but I encourage her to do it as often as I can. She's eating solids really well, and drinking water. I give her Calf manna to make sure she's getting enough protein. I WISH she would take a bottle or drink, more, but short of tubing her I can't get it in her other than the bowl.
    I think at 10 weeks old I wouldn't bother force-feeding her-- keep out top quality feed for her good clean fresh water good hay/browse . do you feed alfalfa pellets? Important to get enough calcium in her too. DUh-- alfalfa is in the title-- maybe it's something in the hay?? I had some hay that gave my cow (!) an upset stomach
    Keep track of her weight just to make sure she's thriving.

    Again this is my opinion only-- I'm not an expert, other opinions welcome--

    Tracy- I usually do probiotics at the first sign of anything-- certainly can't hurt and may be just the ticket.


    Susie
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    She's been overdosed on Cocci treatments and wormed, CDT vaccinated 2 times so far and due in a week or two for her 3rd. Weaned at 7 weeks old.
    ...........................

    She is only 7 weeks old and weaned.
    She is only 7 weeks old and getting her 3rd vaccination series.
    She is only 7 weeks old and you gave her sulfa's and corid not for the 5 days which you see on the forum but Corid for 7 days.
    You used Ivermectin on a kid, which is something you may have gotten a dosage from me on but not used on a kid.

    Can you see a pattern? At this point you won't know if it's cocci or worms unless you fecal, or if it's damage done by drugs.

    I would be giving her b vitamins. I would have taken her off all food and made her starve so she would go back on the bottle...honestly I would not buy a 7 week old who wasn't on the bottle, I would have taken her back, let her be weaned at the farm on her dam if she was dam raised, or let them show me how they were bottling her.

    Very honestly now. She is likely ruined for anything other than a pet. The idea that she can now grow to her potential without milk isn't happening. With intestine carrying immunity for everything and hers sloughed from the cocci, she likely will never have normal poop, any type of stress, any change in feed, she will get loose poop or diarrhea...we call them hot house flowers.

    If you want to put a doe on continuing sulfa you can, this may help her heal. But Corid is used only for 5 days if you can't control diarrhea with it like this than you likely aren't dealing with cocci.

    I would also get banamine from the vet and put her on it for 5 days, 1cc per 100 pounds so dose it down. This will calm her gut and maybe give her a chance with its anti-inflammatory ability to help her heal some.

    I would worm her with something more appropriate than Cydectin if a fecal shows she has worms, what do you worm you adult does with?

    I would think about taking her off all food and making her take the bottle, warm whole milk, not more than 16 ounces offers 4 hours apart, not even water. When she is back on the bottles then she can have water, then alfalfa hay and grain with calf manna in it.

    Probiotics, just buy the tube, give her a lima bean size amount after you offer her each bottle.

    Milk is just soo important. If you simply won't do this, than feeding the calf manna with his soy protien and whey is better than nothing. But she will not be able to stay on this pellet for very long without having to introduce grain to bring that protien level down, as it will cause diarrhea in the heat.

    It's hard when a vet tells us something we all would think they know what they are talking about, sadly if you asked how much schooling they had in small ruminants they would tell you none. Vicki
     
  9. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I would worm her with something more appropriate than Cydectin if a fecal shows she has worms, what do you worm you adult does with?
    ....................

    Contacted privately by the OP.....

    I want to change this to Ivermectin....worm babies with something more appropriate than Ivermectin. Cydectin is fine especially if the kids have been in with adults.

    I did not get it from your post that you purchased this kid, from reading the other posts neither did anyone else. You purchased a sickly, overmediated kid and continued with this spiral.

    I am sorry you think this response from me is condescending, I came on to this post to fix anything I thought was wrong or that came out wrong in my rush through it. But sorry other than that sentence I don't think my advice was any different than anyone elses. I think you are reading the condescension into it, I certainly do not mean it that way. Vicki