Albon VS Co-rid

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by rg1950, Jul 20, 2008.

  1. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    We have always used albon (and it's generic form) for cocci prevention and treatment. We have not used co-rid, but we have a doe kid who has been treated faithfully with albon (every 3 weeks) and is still showing cocci in her fecal tests when none our other goats are. If anyone has had experience with both corid and albon, did you notice any one working better than the other? What's the difference beside the active ingredient, price and name? Is one suppose to be more effective than the other? I have ordered some corid to use on her. I read you are suppose to follow up with vitamin B injections due to thiamine deficiency caused from corid? True or not? Why does corid say 5 days and albon is 6? We live in Texas close to Houston, which is a more disease prone area. Thanks for your help and answers.
     
  2. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    Not. It causes the deficiency in the cocci...NOT THE GOAT.

    Nothing really.
    No.
    If you're using any type of cocci prevention/treatment, and at the correct dose then you're ahead of most. Just go to goats 101 and get the correct doses. Corid=50mg/kg Albon-Sulfadimethozine=75mg/kg
    Don't know where you got your info. but we all use both for 5 days.

    Try the Corid on the doeling and have a fecal done at the end of the 5 days treatment to see if it is working on her. That's the best advice.
    Kaye
     

  3. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    Kaye,
    Surprisingly enough, a vet who really don't know anything about goats had said 6 days, maybe because the area we live in is flat where water stands and it rains off and on all year, or maybe because that's what he heard and he don't know what he's talking about :biggrin

    The albon is working on all the goats except this one. I fecal test them about once a month to make sure (sometimes twice a month for the smaller kids). I could probably cut back to 5 days (sure would save money not having to use the extra days worth on the kids). This particular one is not badly infested with them. She is just showing a little more than I would like. I did get the corid in and have started her on it at a dose of 6.5cc/25lbs. I will check her fecals again a few days after I finish treatment and compare it to the slides I took before I started it, when I was using the albon. Thanks again Kaye for your answers.

    Tara Green
    Green Acres Goats Farm
    Dayton, TX
     
  4. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Biggy also is that you are new. I just went through this with someone else. She was using Sulmet a 12.5% sulfa and it at worked for her for that last 3 years at the dosages on fiascofarm.com this year she has had a couple of her group, later born kids in with older kids, come down with cocci.

    I think what she found out is (although she is blaming the drug and not her doseages)...her dosage has never been right and it never worked because she never really had cocci bad enough to treat anyway. Now that these later born kids are in saturated pens after several years of raising goats and this older kid crop has been pooping in this pen since January, she is finding out that her cocci prevention is wrong, wrong dosage etc..

    Our analogy of pickle juice really. Folks using some wormers and cocci preventions would get the same results using pickle juice because they never really needed drugs anyway. Now as their herd gets older and pastures, pens and goats build arrested larve or numbers of occysts in your pens, you then have to relearn everything you thought you knew.

    Double check your dosages.

    Vets, we love them we hate them. You get drugs from them and shake your head up and down and smile as you walk away. Then come on here, double check your drug and dosages in goatkeeping 101, make sure it won't kill your goat or that it will even work. A good trick is to say "I brought in this one doe who is sick and have 3 more at home with the same thing". This way when they want to give you stuipd low doses of stuff, they give you 3 times as much as they think you need when in reality it is like exactly what you needed for just the one doe! Vicki
     
  5. whimmididdle

    whimmididdle Guest

    :yeahthat and :yeahthat

    Whim
     
  6. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    Is it safe to dose albon at stronger than 1cc/5lbs on day 1 and 1cc/10 on days 2-5(or 6 as vet had said?)? I am trying to co-rid on our resistant doe and will see if it is working when I run the fecals on her later next week. Hopefully this will clear her up. She's not bad, just more than I like. I was just wondering, if I didn't have corid (I do have some, just curious in case anyone else reads this post and don't have it) does it hurt to give more than recommended, such as doubling every day or for a couple days of the treatment for resistant animals?
    Tara Green
    Green Acres Goats Farm
    www.greenacresgoatsfarm.com
    Dayton, TX
     
  7. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Is Albon 12.5% or is it stronger? Because the dosage for Albon 12.5% is 3 ounces or 90 cc per 100 pounds, so nearly 1cc per pound. In an outbreak the same dosage all 5 days, for prevention days 2, 3, 4 and 5 you go down by 1/2.

    When fecaling for Corid you have to remember that it is only not allowing the harmful lifecycle to go to the more harmful so you don't see the killing or evacuating of cocci like you do with sulfa's. When on prevention with corid we rarely see much cocci on fecal, but I also never miss a 3 week prevention either. And I start early so it isn't able to ever take hold. Vicki
     
  8. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    Vicki, It is Albon generic- Di-methox 12.5%. The vet (who don't know anything about goats) had said 1cc/5lbs 1st day then half that (1cc/10lbs) days 2-6. It has worked with all our goats except this one. I treated her every two weeks (she's a boer) until she was 3 months old, then started fecalling. She has a twin who is growing great and looks good. I hope the corid will work. Is there anything else I can give her to boost her energy levels, along with the corid? How long after the last dose of corid should I do another fecal to see results? And my last question is what is the earliest age I should start treating. I have always started at 3-4 weeks of age. Is this to late? Sorry for all the questions, but one doe being like this and not growing like she should is a huge profit loss to our farm.

    Tara Green
    Green Acres Goats Farm
    www.greenacresgoatsfarm.com
    Dayton, TX
     
  9. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    It is Albon generic- Di-methox 12.5%. The vet (who don't know anything about goats) had said 1cc/5lbs 1st day then half that (1cc/10lbs) days 2-6. It has worked with all our goats except this one. I treated her every two weeks (she's a boer) until she was 3 months old, then started fecalling. She has a twin who is growing great and looks good. I hope the corid will work. Is there anything else I can give her to boost her energy levels, along with the corid?
    ......................

    Every 2 weeks is really over the top. The problem with using a sulfa like this is that you are never then leaving any cocci in the fecal for them to build immunity with. Then when you wean and you stop the treatment, if they are not readily cosuming the 1 pound per 30 to 50 pounds or whatever your meat goat pellet is dosed at than you have outbreaks of cocci at weaning.

    How long after the last dose of corid should I do another fecal to see results? Fecal, do the first day and see if you have a decrease, then check again on day 5.

    And my last question is what is the earliest age I should start treating. I have always started at 3-4 weeks of age. Is this to late?
    .........................

    I start on day 20, that worming and that starting on corid is the only time I don't group wide worm or cocci treat, by the next one everyone who is about the same age starts on the same day, it's that important. Since Corid only harms one lifecycle if you then start late, you use it for 5 days, but you then before 21 days are left, have other occysts maturing with no residual corid in the system so you have an outbreak. Why it's so important not to miss days and to start when the lifecycle starts.

    I would redo her bo-se, give her probiotics and yeast, and watch her fecal. Vicki
     
  10. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    Vicki, that was a typo, I meant that I treat every 3 weeks, not every 2. Sorry.

    We have been using medicated feed on our boers, but have heard mixed advice with this. Some say use it, others say it helps the cocci build up a tolerance and makes it worse so don't use it. Don't know if we should move away from med feed all together and just use corid or albon? We mix the med feed with ricebran powder, and keep their creep feeders full.

    Since using the corid on this kid, she is doing better. I will re-fecal in a few days, but in the mean time, I will use the bo-se, probiotics, and Stupid question (yeast? I know what yeast is when it comes to bread and biscuits, but not meds.) :blush Thanks

    Tara
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    There is a product called Diamond V yeast, they have a website, perhaps you have a local distributor...Oh wait your Dad goes up to the coop, they sell it there. It's a yeast really high in B vitmains that is crown on a corn base...well shoot don't let me slaughter all of this it's a wonderful product and they explain it much better than I do.

    The problem with feeding the medicated meat goat pellets to your adults is that you aren't in no waygiving them enough to medicate their blood level high enough to work. Ask the mill how many pounds they have to eat per pound of body weight. That would mean my Pilgrims I feed, the bucks would have to eat 1 pound per 50 pounds of body weight. So GE would have to eat 5 and 1/2 pounds a day, do you really offer that much? I feed it only because it is the only alfalfa based pellet I can get here that contains AC. But I also didn't grain my adult boers unless they were nursing kids and the last 50 days of pregnancy when I moved them into the maternity pen.

    But I do think meat goat pellets are an answer for growing kids, but it pretty much has to be fed free choice, and you can't add anything to it or you once again scew the amount they eat. Eating 1 pound a day when you are only 50 pounds is alot.

    But you are right my feed contains deccox, which doesn't kill all the cocci...rumensin does. But the rumensin feed at the coop is a really good feed. Vicki
     
  12. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    The 12.5% is about 1/3 of the recommended level for goats. He gave you the dose for Dimethox 40%. And all the recommendations I've read and been told is NOT to drop the levels on the 2-5days. Even Goat Medicine has the days given at 75mg/kg (2.2#) for 4-5 days with no drop level in the amounts.
    Kaye
     
  13. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    Kaye-what would be the recommended level for goats for 5 days. I know corid is 6.25cc (vickis dose) for 25lbs. What would it be for albon 12.5%? I have heard vets medicate comparing goats to cows and goats require more than cows due to their absorbancy of meds. Is this true?

    Vicki-We do feed free choice through creep feeders, but add rice bran, sweet feed, and a little alfalfa to the med feed. Should we cut out everything except med feed (or meat goat pellets) for our boer babies creep feeder? I will look into the Diamond V yeast.

    Tara
     
  14. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yep if you add all that stuff to it, it decreases the amount they eat. I know Kaye, like me also thinks, well she knows :) that the mg/kg is already really too low, so don't go diluting it more by topdressing with this and that. I don't even feed alfalfa pellets with mine, since they are green and alfalfa meal based when I raise out boys. The girls do because they stay in the main barn on the lambar alot longer. On the bottle the boys balk at their corid so it's eaiser to use the meat goat pellets and fecal.

    My Corid dose is from Kaye, she helped me tweak mine with all the problems last year with the old dilution rate. Vicki
     
  15. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    Vicki, We don't lambar the boers, so when they are weaned from the dam (usually when she kicks them off at 4 or so months) they aren't getting the calcium anymore. I thought the alfalfa helped with that. I haven't read the label in a while on the feed, but what do you give them for calcium if you don't give alfalfa? or is it necessary at this age? Are you saying the meat goat pellets are alfalfa based? If so, I need to pay more attention to the labels. Thanks,
    Tara
     
  16. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    It's why I use Pilgrims, it's an alfalfa meal based pellet. I know the other one my feed dealer sells tons of a week isn't, so he special orders me my handful of bags a week...and yes I pay more. Their pellets are also a lovely shade of brown :) Vicki
     
  17. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    Vicki,
    Time to switch our babies feed again!!! What is the exact name on the bag? Pilgrims meat goat pellets? I am not familiar with Pilgrims (I think you gave us a bag once, but it is long gone) and I didn't read the label. Dad always does that part. Which feedstore do you get it from, the one close to your house or the one in Splendora where you get the Bluebonnet? I will call and check prices and see about ordering some. Since we weaned the boers, they have slowed on their growth, even though we creep feed them free choice. I guess we are creep feeding them the wrong amounts. Our nubian babies are still on the lambar, so they are still growing. Thanks

    Tara
     
  18. Kaye White

    Kaye White Guest

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    With the 12.5% Albon you will need to give 1.6cc/2# to get 78mg/kg. So for 5# of body weight to get close to the 75mg/kg recommended dose you will give the kid= 4cc/5# bodyweight. Ummmm...kinda' like Sul-Met and some of the other weaker coccidia preventions dosed at calf doses.
    Now, you see why the doeling is breaking through. And it's a wonder the doses were working on the other kids.??? I suspect if you had kept on with the orginal dose, by next year and more goats, you would have had a lot more break throughs.

    I'm not breaking things down into hundreths as most of us get close on something like this drug, anyway.
    Kaye
     
  19. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Yes I just the Pilgrims meat goat. I get it from Deweys near me. But call Pilgrims and find out who else they deliever to. I don't go to Splendora anymore they won't carry bluebonnet. Pilgims also makes a show goat, the difference is the amount of protein, alas the protein increase is with fish meal :) Vicki
     
  20. rg1950

    rg1950 New Member

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    Vicki, Where do you get your bluebonnet now? We haven't needed any in months, but are going to soon.

    Thanks for the info about doses Kaye.

    Tara