Albon, Corid, Sulmet... I am so confused!

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by NWgoats, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. NWgoats

    NWgoats New Member

    610
    0
    0
    I have read all of the posts I could find concerning cocci prevention and treatment. But I am not sure I have everything clear.
    Albon/Sulmet are sulfas. Are they only for treatment?
    Corid/Amprolium, Is this for treatment or prevention or both?

    Doeling (born 4/11/08) was wormed on July 14th with your recommended dosage of Ivomec+. Next day I started her on treatment for cocci. Sulmet at the recommended dosage on here. 5 day treatment. Refecaled on the 21st, clear.
    So, now here we are a month later and she is again unthrifty and fecal shows roundworms and cocci at high levels. None of the other goats have the levels of cocci that she does and appear to be tolerating the low worm loads they are carrying. Ie, good eye color and good condition.
    Up till now, I have not implemented a worming regimen. My property had no animals of any kind on for at least 10 years before we purchased it. We have been here for 3 1/2 years and my goats have only been wormed about every 6 months. I have fecaled before worming and then again after to be sure that my wormer is working. This has worked until I purchased two 8 week old doelings this spring. However, until I found this site, I had never heard of the 3x 10 days apart worming.
    I know she needs to be treated, but would like advice on what protocol to use.
    I live in the Pacific Northwest it is generally cool and damp. Thus far, Ivomec still works for us. Doeling is Alpine and 4 months old. She is still on a bottle, but only gets about 24 oz. a day, straight goat milk. Gets alfalfa hay free choice, meat goat pellets w/rumensin (1 lb. daily), alfalfa pellets (1 lb. daily) free access to a decent mineral (from what I have read on here, could be better, but I am working on it), fresh water 3 x day and free access to 1 acre of pasture (kind of crappy right not, but there). I know how much she is eating because each goat gets fed separately and feed is weighed. Then I know if someone is not eating.
    I worm first, if I am reading the posts correctly. Then start the cocci treatment, right? Now, if I am worming with Ivomec +, do I do the 3x 10 days apart?
    And do I treat her with Sulmet or Corid? Last time she was treated with Sulmet. I have both here. Should I have re-treated with the Sulmet? If I treat with Corid, do I then re-treat in 20 days?
    If she continues to have problems, what other issues should I examine? None of my other goats are having problems. Even the Miniature Alpine I purchased at the same time from the same breeder who is a week older.
    Sorry this is so long, just wanted to put in as much information as possible.
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

    16,497
    4
    0
    Biggy is to understand that each goat is different. Each kid gets a different amount of colostrum, and different quality colostrum depending upon the age of the doe the colostrum came from. Kids who are picked on by other kids of course have higher worm burdens, kids who are on the low end of the pecking order don't get the most to eat, the warmest places to lay etc...their immunity suffers from this.

    Also purchase a doeling from me who carries super cocci from 22 years of goats, and then purchase a doeling from someone else newer to goats...put these goats into your herd without quranteen, the cocci that don't even effect my doeling get eaten by your goats when mine stands in the feeders or poops in the hay, your now infested with super cocci from the older farm. Your kids don't have immunity to this, neither does the new goatling from the new farm...if you don't use prevention on all the kids they will suffer from cocci, your older does will slough it off without a problem.

    What is happening to you is showing you that with your youngest affected that your prevention program is not working. Older kids and older does rarely have cocci burdens unless they are ill or super stressed, they have good immunity to cocci. By allowing kids to suffer from anemia from worms or cocci or unthriftyness you loose size on your kids. Very unlikely with loads they can't control you will hit breeding size this year, and left to go further they may never grow to their potential even as older goats.

    Ivermectin Plus is way to strong of a drug with the flukeicide in it to use on kids or goats period unless you are dealing with liver flukes. Valabzen when also contains a flukeicde has a very different one in it although my vet just recently said I would be much better off using tramisole for tapes and because on kids it would get HC which Valbazen won't. I may change to using it on kids next year instead of Valbazen, it would be alot less wormer in their liver also.

    I would use a sulfa, use it treatment levels, not going down by 1/2 days 2 through 5. Make sure your dosage is correct. I would also worm them. If you want to use Ivermectin than at least get the 1% or the Eprinex...something without the plus.

    Also make sure you have read saanendoah.com copper information from hundreds of goats in your area. Without working on your copper you will never be successfull at keeping your parasite burdens low over the years. Kidding difficulties, poor hooves, less than acceptable hair coats, the list is pretty long. Back before her copper information when someone would come on my forum about retained placenta 90% fo the time they lived in the Pacific northwest. Vicki
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

    9,442
    1
    0
    you use either of them for prevention and if it is now a month later then yes you will have cocci again in kids. you need to use cocci prevention every 21days
     
  4. NWgoats

    NWgoats New Member

    610
    0
    0
    These doelings are only a week apart in age, but the one having problems is very timid. She allows the mini to boss her around and is at the bottom of the pecking order. I would guess that she was at the breeders also. So, because of this, that could be affecting her immune system? I hadn't thought of that. I do make sure that she gets her own portions. They are stalled to eat.
    I really don't have a prevention program. The twins that were born here in February had clean fecals up until 11 weeks old when I sold them. When I got these two, they had been recently treated for cocci and I was sent home with instructions and Sulmet for another treatment. But, I wrongly thought that by giving them that treatment and having them eat the medicated feed would keep them healthy. Last year I purchased two 8 week old bucklings and they ate this feed until 6 months old. They are fine. I don't know if perhaps they had/have tougher constitutions or because they are bucks or a different breed, Nigerians.
    I only have four does: two 2 year olds and these two 4 month olds. There won't be any more babies until next spring earliest, so I have time to get my prevention
    program up and running before then. But I still need to solve this problem.
    I have used the Ivomec + previously because we do have a liver fluke problem in my area. Several people here locally have lost goats to them. For about 8 months of the year my pasture is swampy and filled with slugs and snails. I can get the others you mentioned if you think that would be better. Or would some other wormer work better for the roundworms she has?
    I have read the saanendoah information. I have also talked to local breeders, I also pm'd one of the members on here that is in my area. She is willing to help me out with bolusing if necessary. As I said, they have a decent mineral, but I am working on getting a better one. Mine has as much or more copper than some mentioned, but too much iron. Since our water is practically red with iron, I need to counter balance that. So far, none of my goats have any of the symptoms of a copper deficiency. Believe me, if one of my goats even has a funny look on their face, I am researching to see what is wrong with them. A bit paranoid because I haven't had goats for 20 years and things have certainly changed since then.
     
  5. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

    1,045
    0
    0
    You could try using Cydectin.... I use to use Ivermectin, still do sometimes but Cydectin is very effective.