AGHHH please help difficult birth and placenta not out yet

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by blessedby7, Mar 16, 2010.

  1. blessedby7

    blessedby7 New Member

    Ok 4th freshner VERY heavy milker near 2 gallons a day but not currently milking.
    In labor all day finally I went in at 10 pm to find out what was wrong. Kid was upside down and backwords with one leg bent forward and one back. Rearranged and got him out. No issues. Then doe still having issues 1 hour later still not other kid. Went in pulled out another buckling at about 11:00 or so and he was fine position. watched doe for awhile and then went to bed. We thought she was done. (although she did this to us her second kidding and kidded 2-3 hours again after the first kid came out) sigh*.
    So I went to bed and got up this morning to a beautiful black doeling so she kidded the last one without me. However she has her placenta hanging. I called vet he said give 1/2 cc of oxytocin. I did that about 4:30 pm as I finally picked it up from vet. Then gave another 1/2 cc oxy again at 6:45. Plancenta is now touching the ground so we are making progress but still not out.
    He gave me some cmpk should I start that now?

    If so he says to give 30 ml in 4 different places sub q. I just don't want to give it if it will hurt her. I have never had to deal with anything like this.

    She has always done relatively well after kiddings despite her drama queen births.

    What shall I do now. Just wait now since its almost out? its hanging about 2 inches on the ground but dang its getting gross and dirty.
  2. prairie nights

    prairie nights New Member

    I don't think CMPK will hurt her, it may replenish the calcium she used up in the difficult birth and make her feel better. Not sure if it will help the afterbirth clean up any faster than the oxytocin but it won't hurt. You can split the 30cc into 2 x 15cc shots or 4x 7.5cc.

  3. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

    The CMPK will not hurt your doe. I will sometimes give it if a goat has a large litter or a difficult birth. I like to stay ahead of the game in preventing milk fever. Once the afterbirth is hanging, it's not truly retained and I've never yet had a doe who didn't pass a hanging placenta. I just dealt today with a doe who had a long, difficult labor. I actually gave her the oral CMPK while she was in labor to help it progress. She was able to get the kids further down the birth canal so she dilated enough for us to straighten them out. I'm not sure whether or not the calcium helped with the afterbirth, but she did clean out within an hour of kidding.
  4. New Member

    Just know it's not an emergency of any kind, except to your eyes and nose that her placenta is still hanging. It is not retained when it is hanging out of the vagina.

    When it first comes out it is attached to a bubble of water that puts weight to it so it will gravity pull out on it's own, now touching the ground if the doe was walking around in underbrush it would get snagged and get dragged out of her on it's own. Even the oxytocin is a little overkill, the CMPK won't hurt but is the ultimate in "I have to tell her something to do to get her to stop calling me so I will give her 10 busy work things to do" :)

    It is likely simply held by a closing cervic, it is likely not even attached anymore to the uterus. Give the last 1/4 cc of oxytocin, get her up on the milkstand and milk her out, lost of massage, and bear hug her in front of the forudder, if nothing still, than put on a glove and with gentle traction simply pull on it, you can feel when it is going to break in your hand so move closer to the vagina, don't yank, just tug. Or if that freaks you out completely than simply take some hay string and tie it up onto itself making it weigh more, you can add anything for more weight if you like, but it's the same premise as gentle pulling on it over a few mintues.

    What you don't want to do is to yank on a placenta that is just out of the vagina, this can cause the little suction cups to be torn off and stay in the uterus and cause infection, or it can cause them to tear off and bleed. You dont' have this going on.

    From now on when you do assist like this, go right back in for kid number 2, let her push the kid out after you have rearranged it, then go right back in for kid number 3 until all your have left is placenta. The if a doe hasn't really pushed kids out like in this delivery immediatly start with the 1/4cc of oxytocin every 2 hours until you have placenta, lots of milking, lots of massage of the udder, and CMPK if you choose to do that. Vicki
  5. blessedby7

    blessedby7 New Member

    What would I do without you. :biggrin Thank you sooooo much for being here.

    Well I just woke up and getting ready to go check but last night it was draggin' and so I tied it in a knot lol. I gave her 45 cc of CMPK he told me 125 but she did NOT like this too well as it was.
    Also I know this sounds weird she was like this when I bought her but she likes to drink her own milk!!!!!!!!! WEIRD !!! And I never heard of it before. but my son milked her out off the milk stand because it is currently outside and wouldn't ya know it it was pouring so we milked her in the barn without anything and she was ADMIMANT to give her some. So we allowed her to drink it lol. She drank about two qts. I figured can't hurt it has calcium right?!

    She has free choice alfalfa too is that ok? good?
    I get confused about everyones feeding routines and I think I give her too much grain. So I will look into what you all say here. :) thats another topic.

    If its not out when I go out even though I am SCARED to death to pull I will try.

    On another note the kids are REALLY having a hard time nursing because she sags. She has the BIGGEST udders I have ever EVER seen in a dairy goat. It is more like my old cow. Seriously. They are sooooo dang huge its gockly. :)

    should I pull them? sometimes she walks away when they try. I made sure they got some col. But i have no idea if they are nursing when we aren't there because it sure is work to get them to nurse when we are in there. We have only done that three times.
    I am thinking it may be best to pull them. :( so much work lol. But nicer kids so I guess its ok.

    Thanks sooooo much. This really means the world to me.
  6. Anita Martin

    Anita Martin Senior Member

    Sure you can pull the kids at any time. If you don't want to stress the doe, simply put them in an area where she can see them, lay down next to them, etc. such as a large dog crate, and then you milk the doe and bottle the babies. After a while she'll start leaving them in their area while she wanders around eating or whatever. You can then move them to wherever.

    Or you can just pull them if she doesn't care. It seems hard on the does to pull kids after they've nursed, so I don't like to do that, but have done the separation and bottling with really good success and no screaming from the doe.

    Can you easily milk this doe with such a huge udder? Producing two gallons a day, I'll bet it's a lot of work at milking time to get her milked out!

    Good luck and welcome to the forum.
  7. New Member

    Why not keep the kids on her and milk her out twice a day? The kids would be failing if they weren't nursing her, the older they get the better they will get at it also, so although you may think you need to help now, in a week you won't have to. By you milking her she will also not loose more attachment on that udder. She certainly has enough milk for you and the kids! If you take a doe with an udder like that to only milking twice a day, her udder is going to be to the ground soon, so I would leave her kids on her, make sure they get to nurse, perhaps put them up twice a day on the milkstand and make sure they are full, round warm bellies, before you milk her all the way out on the stand. Plus with the attention they will be tame. vicki
  8. goatnewbie

    goatnewbie New Member

    I just wanted to congratulate you on getting those kids out and surprise a third and a doeling on top of that. I too am grateful these wise women and men are here to help us when we so need it.