a goat to watch

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by SherrieC, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Last year Pagan came down with a good case of Milk fever, this year she's due on the 21st, usually she goes a day or two late. anyhow everyone else in the barn is due the same time and looking fine. She's looking HUGE and shivering :/ I went up towno and got more of those Standly alfalfa pellets, and I'm slowly uping what I'm giving those preggo's Plus called the vet and reserved a second bottle of injetable CMPK and a jug of ringers! They are between the 10 does in that pen already eating 1/2 lb of alfalfa pellets, plus 7 lbs of grain a day. ( my grain mix is 2xoats, 1 x corn, 1 x beet pulp, 1 x sunflower seed, 1 x calf manna) plus all the pretty good alfalfa hay they want, I have had better, but it's not bad : ) water and minerals, plus pasture nibblings. I gave them an extra 6 lbs of pellets between the 11 animals in that pen. and will up it till they're at 2 lbs each a day by the 24th to get them over the hump than maybe I can find some richer hay, maybe . Unless Kaye or Vickie thinks that s too fast to up it? Anything else I should do for the old girl?
    Thanks Sherrie
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    It would be bothering me to have a bred doe shivering, course I don't deal with the cold like you do, nowhere near. Ours is more about dampness and cold. So here it would be about making sure she is eating the hay I am giving her, her minerals and alfalfa pellets to make sure she is getting the calcium, and bedding.

    Does she eat with gusto the hay you are giving her? If not can you find grass hay to temp her with? Make sure she is getting up, and perhaps up her grain to make sure she is getting enough energy if she is full of kids.

    It's hard to help someone else, cause alot of it is gut instinct...I know for here it would be so abnormal she would already have a blood test in and started on CMPK. vicki
     

  3. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Well I can start her on CMPK, but what kind of blood test? I've not ever heard of that? and I doubt blondie the vet, would. The only good thing that came out of pagan's illness last year, was my vet didn't have CMPK she doesn't carry stuff like that for small animals the horses and cow vet will not touch goats he refuses! I called and said My vet so and so said I need this now and she's out, They LET me buy it. so thats' where I'm getting the Meds that old Brown wont sell me lol!! He thinks I'm treating COWs! which I do have 3 of, and he has been here on farm visits for the cows and horses. Of course they still go to Brown for out of state health cause He won't see em.
     
  4. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    I'm not much more help, but if she were mine I would go ahead and be dosing her with the CMPK. It can't hurt anything. That is unless she stresses out when given shots like my doe does. I like the MFO solution for occasions like this. Give her a good oral dosing twice a day to ward it off and you don't have to worry about poking them so much. (I get it from Jeffers or PBS.) It works wonders here to bring them around even with a full blown case of it. I will never be without it. CMPK injectable is the same thing as MFO it is just injectable. MFO will also give her a little energy boost as it has some dextrose in it.

    As long as the alfafa is pretty good and she has alfalfa pellets you can't do much more in the way of calcium other than the above mentioned. It might not hurt to jacket her if she is shivering. That way she can use more energy to put toward her kids and herself than to keep warm. Upping her grain a little couldn't hurt either.

    Good luck with your doe! I hope she feels better soon. I know milk fever is a PAIN and tends to pop up even when you are doing everythig right. It's those big old hard working girls that work themselves calciumless. ;)
     
  5. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    I would add that we mix the MFO with gatorade (love those electrolytes!) or a Power-Ade - whatever is on sale. Cause that MFo may burn the throat and now you have a new problem.

    If you are feeding the does as a group, you might want to consider that she is getting more than her fair share of grain, thus tweaking her CA/Ph ratio.

    2 years ago I had a few Boers that "bogged down" during kidding. Spitting out 3 healthy 12 lb. kids but seemed to lack some oomph between kids. I feed the Boers in 6-8 deep grain pans spread around the pen (nothing like seeing someone sprinting up the hill tossing some grain in a pan and getting the heck out of the way and then running to the next pan and repeating the process. And the goats have horns - they don't use them, but you can bump into them! Ahhh, a new "reality show" in the making! :) )

    But I digress. So I called a breeder whose opinion I respect and she asked me if it was the more dominant does (and usually a little older girls) that were bogging down and I realized that yes that was true. She suggested that perhaps they get a whole pan to themselves - think about it - hmmm - yep, that would be right. So perhaps too much grain? I cut the grain and all of my problems disappeared.

    I guess what I would do would be to feed this doe a measured amount on the milkstand while the other does are eating the grain. Perhaps a bit less grain than normal until she is back on track. Also the MFO to tweak her back into balance again. 2-3 X/day until she straightens out or kids. Better this than a trainwreck. BTW, even here with temps dropping to -5 with a -20 windchill, my girls don't shiver. They do puff up like fuzzy white snowballs though! A blanket would be a good idea as well.
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    And lets not start this kidding season off on the wrong foot.

    Everyone needs to go read the hypocalcemia articles in goatkeeping 101 by Sue Reith. Oral calcium is never going to help pull a doe out of hypocalcemia, it needs to be given injected, then move to the oral preperation once you have the doe under control.

    Or......go back in the forum to last year and reread the problems folks had who only used the oral preperation and lost does.

    Don't second guess yourself, a doe who is heavy bred and off for any reason, start her...you can always stop if you guessed wrong, but put it off, go to bed for the night, and you can have a doe you can't pull out of it in the morning. Always side on the side of caution.

    Pulling blood for a calcium level can give you an idea, especially in a doe you have problems with each year. I have a doe with sluggish labor, she gets calcium subq as she goes into labor, it helps, no idea why she does this, but for her she needs it...and a little oxytocin sometimes even then. Each doe is as different as each of us. Vicki
     
  7. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Oh calcium level I can call and ask the vet if she would check it, pull the blood and send it in tomrow with hubby. I'm stuck here waiting on a sllooww mechanic. and a school delay do to ice! I think I'll ask hubby to see if he can get two bottles of the CMPK, she used the whole bottle last year. and this is the Huge HERD Queen, but she has a foundered front hoof, so that and her saanen attitude she has always gotten up slowly, strectched, thought about maybe coming to the food, pee's, poops, takes a step, stretches, mosies, she's always the last goat milked always. I'll just start feeding her in the milk room on the floor she's way too big to hop up and down, with the twisting she has to do to get her huge frame down and turned in my cramped cement milk room.
     
  8. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    Oh yeah she's headed down that road NOW her ears are cold. Shots for sure! I taped her belly its 65 inches! She kept looking at me like your not going to give me a shot are you? oh boy what fun.
     
  9. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    I have to respectfully disagree but I have seen MFO pull MANY does out of a milk fever situation. I do agree that advanced stages do benefit from the injectable (and should get the injectable) and the does I have seen given the MFO were caught before advance stages had time to set in. But that is why I said it would not HURT to give her MFO solution. I give my does who start even looking like they are headed in that direction MFO and they pull right out of it. You just have to know your goats and what to look for in each indvidual.

    Sherrie good luck with your doe! I know she is in good hands with you!
     
  10. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    yep, : ) and of course this is my BABY! John my hubby said to bring her in and install her in his lazy boy lol!
    we were in the pen feeling everyone's ears they were NOT amused! but everyone else's even the nubians with the longest ears were warm to the tip.
     
  11. homeacremom

    homeacremom New Member

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    Sherrie, just curious. Was her temp low... or does pregnancy mask that?
     
  12. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I totally agree with Vicki on this and tho I have pulled a doe or two thru with MFO it is not ideal by any means and slow to work. so use the injectable. Also I really don't like your grain mix too much corn and too much mana in my opinion. I use like 1/4 to my 2 of oats. I also would separate this gal so I know exactly what she is eating. I also never worry abt upping alfalfa pellets
     
  13. Haglerfarm

    Haglerfarm New Member

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    I am sure the injectable calcium is better. I am going to look into getting it. Because it has more in it.
    But, I have never used it.
    I have always had good luck with using Tums, Coral Calcium or equivalent. I like the Coral Calcium because I can open the capsules and dump it into their mouth. I have always had improvement quickly. But, I catch it quickly. The first sign of a doe refusing to eat, standing back get calcium. Can't hurt. I have also found them to yawn a lot. Especially if labor is sluggish. Calcium gets them going. their muscles need calcium to work. Also low body temperature is a sign of low calcium. But, if they are down you need more.
    I have a very pregnant doe due the 19th. She was off late last week. I checked her out and gave her 6 capsules. I watched her as I did my chores. She was soon back to chowing down her hay and acting herself. I did this again the next day to make sure. She seems fine now.
    For years I have kept generic Tums on hand for close up due does. They would get come each day.
    I had not heard of injectable CMPK until getting on this list. I have had the gel CMPK and have used it. But, hate it as it burns.
    I also add alfalfa pellets to their grain mix as our hay is not good.
    Les
     
  14. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    I used to have a problem child like this. She also was the herd queen, heavy producer of milk and kids, lots of quads... Once I started with 30cc CMPK injections and B complex late pregnancy she never became fully symptomatic again and pulled through fine every time.

    A friend wanted to buy her even though she knew how much trouble she had with hypocalcemia and she still treats the doe every year. So far she has staved off any full blown problem. They really like her so I guess she is worth the extra trouble :)

    Christy
     
  15. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    well the corn is just 2 lbs per 9 lb of grain, and the manna one lb per 9 lbs so , a 1/4 of the oats, corn is Safer in our area than other parts of the us, would feed barley but we can't get it here. the rest of the year I feed no manna at all to grown does.
     
  16. trnubian

    trnubian New Member

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    Great idea Sherrie! Bring her on in the house. Give her a can of soda for some energy and let her watch TV in the recliner! ;) THAT way you can keep an eye on her. I love it! Funny thing is I know some people who would do it. :rofl

    I hope she is doing much better now and I hope she has some pretty babies for ya.
     
  17. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    sorry thought you said you were feeding the corn 1 to 2 oats. guess I can't read.
     
  18. SherrieC

    SherrieC Active Member

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    oh , Sondra thats o.k. If I'm feeding toooo much sumpthin I'ld want to know. : ) and I kindof am feeding 2 oats to 1 corn but then theres other things in there. Their regular ration the rest of the year when they are Not heavy bred and Not during winter, will be 3 lbs of oats to each 1 lb of corn. thats what I've been doing since feed went through the roof. But I feel they need the extra during dec- feb if bred.

    Judith they do have a low temp with this, you need to take her temp rectally and anytime its lower than the at least 101, she'ld be due for a round of shots. Now she's really barely Ill. But if I don't treat her she would get worse fast! If she was down with this the dosage is every 2 hrs 30 cc, until up.. Print out those instructions on the hypocalcemia! you will eventually need them.

    Les tums are good yes, the Injectable CMPK does burn, but it's not going into their rumen messing that up. Thats what I don't like about the paste burning their mouth doesn't help to make them eat. I got 2 bottles of injectable today for $ 6! Thats Too Cheap to not have on hand.
     
  19. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

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    How often did you give the CMPK??
     
  20. cmharris6002

    cmharris6002 Guest

    Once or twice a day for the last 5-7 days of pregnancy depending on the severity of symptoms.

    Christy