Nutritional Value of Black Oil Sunflower Seeds

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Sondra, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. SherrieC

    SherrieC New Member

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    yes we have good corn in our area. but still makes me leary. we could feed them rye that would be fun, having goats loosing their minds going nutso, hepped up on the moldy rye.
     
  2. ali923

    ali923 New Member

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    I am using a lactation pellet mixed with a sweet feed horse feed, they are on plenty of pasture and get hay every now and then, unlimited minerals. I am pleased with their milk production and flesh covering, but I wondered if it would be even better to add a handful of barley and boss to their feed on the stand.
     

  3. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Allison, where are your dairy goats readibly absorbable calcium coming from daily? ie...where is their alfalfa.

    Most lactation pellets are nothing but by product feed tags with calcium carbonate in them...which is in your loose mineral already.

    Sweet feeds unless from top brands are just ground grains with molassas on it to keep down the dust.

    No way is your mixutre better, or cheaper than feeding real grain. Either with a dry mix for horses, or feeding oats, barley, corn, boss in any mixture you want.

    Key is alfalfa. I know you have commented before on my stock at shows, the base of their diet is 3 pounds of alfalfa a day, the only grain they get is on the milkstand and it's some form of oats...a dry mix, I don't feed wet molassas because it is soo high in iron, which binds with the copper problems we have here...and with high iron in my water, I don't want to add more iron in my minerals (I feed a grey mineral) nor do I want iron in the grain from the molassas. Molassas also makes an acid rumen.

    If you are feeding the lactation pellet from the Coop in Bryan, it has backery products in it, which is lard...when you feed it and only grass type hays or sudans, is when you sit at club and here those talking about how they have lost to hypocalcemia this doe and that each kidding season. The copper, selenium, iron and calcium connection just seems to be lost on most. Vicki
     
  4. ali923

    ali923 New Member

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    Vicki,
    I do give alfalfa pellets, they get about 3/4 lb. ea. per day. And yes the feed is from the coop in bryan. We can't afford to feed free choice alfalfa pellets, so what do you suggest the minimum should be for them. Also, you are saying it would be cheaper to do a a mix of oats, barley, corn, boss or a dry mix for horses, like at tractor supply? I just want them to be their best, but it won't do me any good if I go broke doing it. So...what would be a good mix? My milkers eat on the stand and then they get a little (pellet) out in the barn with the others who are not milking because they are all together. ******************** I just needs some suggestions that I won't have to give up my left arm to afford.
    thanks,
    allison

    *edited byt BlissBerry - foul language
     
  5. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    Allison may I ask what you are paying for your lactation pellets and sweet feed?
    for instance I pay 8.60 for 50lb alfalfa pellets and the should be getting 3lbs per goat per day. especially if milking. and at TSC the bluebonnet dry horse feed is I think 10.50 per 50 lbs. I am paying $10.35 for 50 lbs of whole race horse oats.
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I pay $9 per 50 for alfalfa pellets and like Sondra I feed 3 pounds a day, one doe who I don't feed much grain to gets 5 (she milks really well, 12 pounds but simply gets too fat if she gets more than about 1/2 a pound of oats each feeding, so she gets alfalfa pellets with her oats to keep her happy on the stand). On the stand I feed oats, to up the protein I am feeding a soybeanmeal based knockoff of calf manna from Wendlands. Right now a horse farm who is feeding out brood mares is using a 14% oat, corn, barley with the supplement pellet I use already mixed to gether for less than I can mix oats and it, so I am using it. Wendlands also is making a dry mix for horses...oats, corn, barley, supplement and really good mineral mix less than I can get whole oats, so I simply will switch to it when they stop feeding these mares and I can't get this blend.

    Biggy is to read the tags, if they say processed grain by products, plant protein by products..you have no idea what is in them from feeding to feeding, I want my tag to say Rolled Oats, Crimped Barley, Whole oats, flaked corn etc....

    I do keep grass hay out when it's rainy and most of the winter, but I maybe feed 50 bales, I dont' rely on the hay for anything other than filler, they get their protein, roughage and calcium from the alfalfa pellets. Vicki
     
  7. Wendy Tinney

    Wendy Tinney New Member

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    Vicki/Sondra, where are you getting your alfalfa pellets from or who makes them? I'm paying $11.50 or more. I think I read you feed Evans. I'm feeding Evans but not paying $9.

    Wendy
     
  8. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    I am feeding either red river valley or bryant and they are $8.60 pr 50lb 14 % I think
     
  9. ali923

    ali923 New Member

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    Sondra, I am paying 8 something/bag for the alfalfa pellets and the lac. pellets and 9 something a bag for the sweet feed. Oh, and I also put beet pulp on top of the milkers feed on the stand. Do ya'll feed only alfalfa pellets to dry does and babies? And what about bucks? A while back I really tried to give the girls the alfalfa pellets they needed, I talked to others and read about it. I think I even got up to about 2-2.5 lbs/doe/day. They let some of it go to waste, they didn't eat it like crazy. I do agree, they need the alfalfa, but what do i do if they just don't eat it. I don't want to do alfalfa hay, there is so much waste involved there.
     
  10. Wendy Tinney

    Wendy Tinney New Member

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    Thanks Sondra, will ask my feed dealer to look into those. I found so many alfalfa pellets have additives. Once I found some that weren't powdery and w/out additives, I stuck with them.

    Wendy
     
  11. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    I can get Boyce even cheaper but they have consistancy problems with, not dust, but they simply aren't stuck together very well. I am feeding Evan's right now, and he also gets Aarow now and then. I get a break on mine.

    Wendy everyone on my place gets alfalfa pellets 24/7/365....alfalfa pellets, minerals, grass hay and browse and water or the only constance.....grain here is the thing moved around depending upon if you are a growing kid, a buck heavily used in rut and needs some groceries, and the last 50 days of pregnancy and lactation. I will have the first dry yearling here in years this year and she will be getting alfalfa pellets only when her herdmates are milking come this next April...I can't grain out dry does unless heavy bred or they would be pork fat.

    Look at the prices of grain...oats, corn barley when you are at the mill, then look at the price of the lactation pellet...shows you that there isn't any real grain, only byproducts in that lactation pellet. Vicki
     
  12. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    bet the reason your does don't clean up the alfalfa pellets is that all that "SWEET" feed is just too filling with not alot of nutrition and how do you keep it from getting moldy down here?
     
  13. dq

    dq New Member

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    hi all! this is my first post here :D! I have found this interesting concerning the sunflower seeds. It is of course pertaining to cows but.......

    http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/abs...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

    abstract excerpt "There was an interaction between treatment and time for levels of 13,14-dihydro-15-keto-PGF2{alpha} in plasma; they were greater 30 and 45 min after the oxytocin challenge for cows that were fed sunflower seed compared with those fed either Megalac, flaxseed, or control."

    I am not familiar with an "oxytocin challenge" though. can anyone enlighten me as to what exactly that entails and is looking for? I know that oxytocin plays a major role in lactation.
     
  14. Wendy Tinney

    Wendy Tinney New Member

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    I do use a oat/boss/knock off calf manna and some get beet pulp. Free choice alfalfa and Techmaster Complete. Does of course. 3 questions here. The doeling born June before last and bred now (I hope), do I keep feeding her a twice a day ration of the above until she is 3 months pregnant and then take it way back?

    Next I feed my buck 1/2 West Kid and Goat and 1/2 LaCuesta. The lacuesta has AC in it and alfalfa. Just started with the mineral with them. Didn't know they could have it. Hay. Is this good? Do they get more alfalfa? I thought that caused UC. I just started with bucks this past year and am so lost in what is best for them.

    Ok, forgot my last ? Will remember as I get into bed! LOL

    Thanks, Sondra and Vicki for getting back with the brands you use.

    Wendy
     
  15. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    The doeling born June before last and bred now (I hope), do I keep feeding her a twice a day ration of the above until she is 3 months pregnant and then take it way back?
    ........................

    Yes because of the poor quality of our hay I do grain my to be first fresheners until 100 days pregnant and then back off to a milkstand grain amount...about 1 pound am and pm until they freshen......BUT yours is nearly 2, mine kid at 13 months...huge difference, no way could I grain my kids that long...I would take away her grain and just give her alfalfa pellets until she is 100 days pregnant, and I would blood test her to make sure she is bred so you don't miss her again.

    Next I feed my buck 1/2 West Kid and Goat and 1/2 LaCuesta. The lacuesta has AC in it and alfalfa.
    ...............

    Both these feeds would have to contain AC or cocci meds for you not to be diluting it. You can't feed bucks 1/2 of something on a label they have to eat it only to keep the blood level up of the drug. Like if you fed a rumensin pellet for cocci and then put this and that and the other thing on top of the pellet, it would dilute soo much how much of the druged feed they get you would have break throughs of cocci. If you are going to mix these feeds than simply add your own AC at a teaspoon per guy per day, it won't hurt the does either.

    Just started with the mineral with them. Didn't know they could have it. Hay. Is this good? Do they get more alfalfa? I thought that caused UC.
    .................

    Really over the top excess of protein can cause urinary calculi but the culprit is nearly always grain. Too much phosphrous, which is in all grass hays and all grains. So alfalfa actually helps. Vicki
     
  16. Wendy Tinney

    Wendy Tinney New Member

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    Thanks Vicki! I must have not said correctly how old my doeling is. She just turned 1 in June. Born way too late to kid last yr and bred her the first heat this yr. But backing her off is what I thought.

    I'm willing to change the bucks way of feeding, but can't seem to get a grasp on what to do. I'll go read tim's post in 101 again and then ask the ?'s I had the last time I read it. Will start gradually adding alfalfa to their feed. How much per day?

    Wendy
     
  17. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho New Member

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    My butterfat levels have sure dropped since I quit feeding BOSS -- but that's okay -- at $32 a bag -- forget it!!!!

    I don't know how you guys manage to do alfalfa pellets -- when ours got to $320 a ton I quit! Of course, I get my alfalfa hay for "free" so it didn't matter in the end.

    I tell you, if I had to pay the $235 a ton that hay is going for -- I would be back down to about 3 goats!

    Tracy
     
  18. ali923

    ali923 New Member

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    Just wanted you guys to know that I went to get feed today, and I have officially begun the converting process and on the road to a better way to feed. I read the calcium:phosphorus article by sue reith and looked at all the other mixes that others do as well, and I just want you guys to rest assured :) that my girls will be eating better. It will be a gradual conversion. Thanks for all the info, can't wait for my girls to be even healthier, especially with breeding/kiddings season here and around the corner.
     
  19. mill-valley

    mill-valley New Member

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    I think alfalfa pellets are more expensive than good hay here too...but I really like the ease and lack of waste. They are $460/ton here, with a break. But we don't get "free" hay :). Which is why I've only got 4 does in milk right now....but they look and milk better than they used to on grass hay and grain ;).