Mini Lamanchas... How to start? Should I?

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by Legend Hills, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    I am inquiring about breeding for Mini Lamanchas. We recently lost our Lamancha buck and we have two young does that would be bred this year by him. I was wondering if I should invest in another Lamancha buck or perhaps go for a Nigerian Dwarf buck?

    Except for knowing what breed of buck I need for the beginning of mini Lamanchas, my knowledge pretty much stops there. Can they be registered anywhere? What are the benefits and faults with this breed (if any). I had so many questions but my brain went blank. :sigh Any information you can provide about this endeavor, if I do decide to work for it, would be greatly appreciated.

    Or should I just stay with getting a Lamancha buck instead. Please help. I'd really like to learn more. I will also be doing search on this topic.

    Just an idea at this point. I wanted to hear from all of you before making a decision either way.

    Thanks.

    -Kim
     
  2. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    We have tons of opinions on this, breeding etc.. on the mini forum on here. But I don't honestly think that breeding your Lamancha does to a ND buck is the way to start. Starting with 50/50 which is what your kids will be is already too much ND in what you are trying to do. You are trying to miniaturize your Lamancha, not shorten the bones. Now if you could find a spectacular for generations, ND than perhaps it would be worth a try. But it is why I took my 4, you can see them on my website (I should call them Sondra's 4 :) and bred them this year to a Purebred LaMancha buck. You can already see the improvement in the head, I am hoping for a little bigger size, like Amy, but with the length and bone and dairy character in a LaMancha and not in the ND breed.

    The improvement in ND since this breed started is tremendous, before they were much cobbier and what the bloodline initially started with wasn't the quality that is around now. If you want to see some drop dead gorgeous mini LaManchas and not ND with no ears, go to jollyrogers.com I wish she would update her website...her Gold line is THE nicest mini LaManchas around. She breeds 75% LaManchas to 25% ND, so each successive generation has the higher percentage of lamancha in it, which for me is key.

    The breed is super hardy, excellent milkers, high fat, really nice teat length if you start from the beginning looking at that part of it. I am not interested in anything you can't easily hand milk. Temperament is bossy, mine easily live with the Nubian's, they don't make trouble but won't take anything off them. They have the LaMancha voice, which is what got me back into Lamanchas, and easily milk 6 to 8 pounds on little grain, while staying in really good shape. I so enjoy them, and local ADGA shows are letting us have one of the rings, shows need numbers. There are also virtual shows and official milk testing. Breed clubs are brand new and I don't think there is one but ours with Miniature Lamanchas, and registries are MDGA and TMGR which alot of folks dual register.

    My pie in the sky dream is to have a closed herdbook with ADGA, a stand alone herdbook so none of our paperwork will end up recorded and graded up into full sized breeds. Both the registries already use ADGA's genetics site to generate their paperwork, so why shouldn't ADGA simply carry the paperwork themselves? But I live in lala land most of the time :) Vicki
     

  3. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    Thank you so much for that information Vicki. Yes a closed herd book would be wonderful. I will certainly ponder over what you have said very carefully.

    Lala land is where I've always been. Nice to know I'm not alone. :lol

    -Kim
     
  4. doublebowgoats

    doublebowgoats New Member

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    First of all, of COURSE you should! LOL! Everyone needs at least one. :D
     
  5. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    :rofl I like your answer Michelle.
     
  6. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    Oh not just one, Sienna is a spoiled brat!!! She was raised with the nubian kids on the lambar, and oh my! Needy :) Vicki
     
  7. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    IF I do this, there will not be just one. But they'll still be spoiled. :lol

    I must admit, though I LOVE the idea of having minis, I don't know of any Nigerian Dwarf breeders around here and the only buck that I do know of lives up the street. And I'm only guessing at his breed by looks alone. He is not registered.

    So, unless I can have success with a bit more research, it looks like I'm leaning towards the standard sized Lamancha buck for now. :sigh
     
  8. NubianSoaps.com

    NubianSoaps.com New Member

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    In a heart beat talk to Ken (Odeon) on here. Not that there aren't other lovely ND bucks, but I just love his does! Vicki
     
  9. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    Thanks Vicki. :) I'll have to look him up. I'd love to see his goats. Perhaps he has a website.
     
  10. LLB101

    LLB101 New Member

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    Personally, I'm excited to see new mini-Manchas being created, if IF *IF* they are from good quality foundation stock, and special emphasis for the ND bucks being from producing DAIRY lines. I think getting more GOOD genetic diversity into the MM breed is very necessary.

    That said, I also agree with Vicki that we need to breed MM's back to full LM when they are old enough to handle potentially bigger kids. Ultimately, I think the best small dairy goat is going to be more than 50% LM. But with the big caveat that if we as MM breeders start getting too much LM and lose the genetic advantages of the ND in easy keeping, higher butterfat, and option for natural year around breeding, then why not just keep breeding full LM's that are too small to meet standard until you get a mini-sized LM.

    If I were in Kimberly's shoes with a young LM doe that I wanted to breed, and I wanted to reduce risk and increase the probability of smaller kids, I would breed to ND buck *IF*, and that's a big IF, if I could find a really dairy ND line. That might even be an AI breeding if that's how to accomplish the dual goals for both breeds, I think its a great way to go..
     
  11. Sondra

    Sondra New Member

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    If your does are FB LaMancha and registered then you would need and great ND buck to get started in MM. OR you could go with an exceptional MM buck and still start on the road to Mini LaMancha's shipping one of these little guys in wouldn't be all that much and Vicki and Linda should have some great MM bucks ready to go right now.
     
  12. Legend Hills

    Legend Hills New Member

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    Thank you. Lots to think about.
     
  13. LLB101

    LLB101 New Member

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    There are more LM breeders this year that seem to have bred young does to good quality ND bucks. As long as they register them with MDGA or TMGR I think its good to get as much good genes in the original Mini's as possible, and we have a long way to go before we have real lines of Minis. Just my opinion of course.

    And getting ND bucks with proven milking data seems hard from my research, but increasingly getting better and better. Of course I'm a fan of the AI options to get the best genes, which kind of defeats the purpose for the LM breeder to have an easy option for their small LM doelings with a local ND buck. Unless you're lucky and have proven ND milking lines nearby.

    For the LM breeder whose does wind up being some of the foundations in Mini's, keep in mind that your name and herd's genes can go on to be part of this new breed, for better or worse, so just like any breeding, the quality of kids is half the bucks' so worth some effort to have your name on quality from the start.
     
  14. Daniel Babcock

    Daniel Babcock New Member

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    I could not agree more with Vicki and Sondra.

    I love the mini's!

    I would definitely start with the best MM buck you can find.

    I have a 2nd freshening 75% MM (Rapunzel) who freshened Feb 15, yesterday she milked 5.4 pounds in the morning and 5.7 pounds in the evening (That is 11.1 pounds for the day . . . amazing). She is rivaling my 4th freshening FB LaMancha.

    I have a 2nd gen 75% MM buck From Karen's White Gold at jollyroger goats unfortunately he threw 6 of 6 bucklin

    I am also looking at higher percentages. I bred a buck from Rapunzel (62.5%) to a FB LaMancha (Lucky*Stars Zinnia), which will give me 81.25% kids. I am very excited for this cross.

    You will not regret getting into the MM's