Aggressive doe...keep or move on

Discussion in 'Dairy Goat Info' started by D Bar J Acres, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. D Bar J Acres

    D Bar J Acres New Member

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    I have a 5 y.o. mini mancha doe (82% LM, so quite large). I got her in early October. As soon as in with the herd (10 others, ND and MM) she was immediately herd queen. She is a VERY aggressive queen. She nails my mini aussie any chance she gets when he's out helping do chores (he has no herding instincts, doesn't bother the goats, but runs around like a goon), she's now gone to ramming our Bernese Mtn Dog (who's got the temperment of a kitten, and wouldn't hurt a fly, think...big and dumb). She will hit another doe hard, hit my smallest going to be FF ND extremely hard yesterday, and during feeding has to be tied up as she bites and grabs any other doe she can.

    Only problem, she's got very nice conformation to work with and I love her personality towards people. She's actually let me take the herd on walks to the woods and fields, something I've never been able to do. Altho I'm thinking the other girls know the routine and may go on their own now.

    Would you keep her and risk her breaking or aborting someone, or get her out to a bigger herd (she came from a 80 head herd), or another herd with bigger goats at least. I will keep her till she kids mid March as I really want her kids.
     
  2. Tracy in Idaho

    Tracy in Idaho New Member

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    Well I can tell you - I sold mine! She did great in another herd, but mine breathed a sigh of relief when she left! She caused several abortions here before I got rid of her....and she wore a ram shield until I sold her.

    So no - I wouldn't keep her! Just my opinion :)
     

  3. MF-Alpines

    MF-Alpines New Member

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    Get a doeling from her and move her on!
     
  4. D Bar J Acres

    D Bar J Acres New Member

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    Darn, was thinking that may be the best. Everyone else will be so happy tho. Except for the dog ramming, I think it's food related. She was thin when I got her and just really acts out around food. In the pasture she's fine, standing in the calf huts between the water tank and the barn she's fine, it's just around the hay and grain, which is where more damage is to happen from stories I've heard. Hopefully she give me a nice doeling.
     
  5. hsmomof4

    hsmomof4 New Member

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    I wouldn't have her around after she kids. My kids still talk about the "mean goats" even though I've gotten rid of them (and they weren't even terribly mean) and all of the remaining goats are extremely sweet.
     
  6. Trysta

    Trysta New Member

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    I bet you she was very low ranked in her original herd. My herd is a bit 'all over the place' in age, breeds and size' and in my experience when you move a lowly goat that gets beaten up to another pen to protect her, and in that pen she's the larger/stronger doe, then instead of being happy and taking break that doe almost always turns around and becomes a big bully herself.

    I've had that so many times! The latest one was a very, very small milking yearling that was brought here last May. She had no ranking in the milking group and was a bit on the skinny side when I dried her up at the end of her lactation, so I put her separate in a pen with two young, shy does. Figured she could use some rest and the young does were getting grain, while the 'just dry' group didn't. Instead of enjoying the pampering, she spent all her time scaring the young does senseless and beating them up!

    Ugghh, they are so much like....like.....HUMANS!!!!

    Marion
     
  7. Trysta

    Trysta New Member

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    I just read the post where it says the kids are still talking about the mean does. Funny, I have one doe, Coffee, who just headbutts every goat that comes close to her. It isn't a problem, believe me, because every doe I have has learned to stay clear of Coffee. She's 5 now and there's always open space around Coffee, but never a fight, she's just a loner, I guess. Anyway, my boys are true 'cow men' and think the goats are merely an item to keep their Mom sane, rather than a respectable business. So my younger son told me a while back: 'the only goat I like is Coffee'. I asked him why in the world he would like that goat and he says: 'because she hates goats, just like me!'
    Marion
     
  8. smithurmonds

    smithurmonds New Member

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    I sold an over-the-top mean doe like that. Like Christine said, what a relief when she was gone. After that experience, my opinion is that it's just not worth the stress.
     
  9. nlhayesp

    nlhayesp New Member

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    I agree with moving her on. It isn't worth the physical damage she can do to the others. A goat that butts the others away from her is a loner. But a goat that is agressive in seeking and destroying will always be a danger to the others. Get rid of her asap.
     
  10. hmcintosh

    hmcintosh New Member

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    I sold a very mouthy bullying alpine goat that I had. My herd is so much more peaceful now. I think you will be glad you did.
     
  11. I agree with Marion. "Bottom totem pole" goats are opportunists when moved to another herd. The biting that your doe is doing and the fact that she's great with people but bad with herdmates is simply (unfortunately) a primarily LM characteristic. LM's are famous for ear-biting other goats. It's so forgiveable for must of us, though, because they are such dolls with people. However, the risk of abortion would make me want to keep a doeling then move her on. She needs to be in a herd of standard sized goats, at least, so that she can be taken down a few notches. Maybe she's just not a good fit for your herd.
     
  12. Tim Pruitt

    Tim Pruitt New Member

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    You might keep this doe if you can keep her by herself. That way you can get the genetics that you want from her. Otherwise, she needs to be re-homed.
     
  13. quiltstuff

    quiltstuff New Member

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    Sounds like she would be a nice fit (with one of her kids to keep her company) for a family that just wanted a milk goat, not a whole herd.
     
  14. dragonlair

    dragonlair New Member

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    I am having the same issue with my LM doe. She is queen and beats on the others. She is a bully first class. And like yours, she has the best conformation AND milk production and is a sweetie to me! I am hoping for a daughter from her this year and then sell her to a new herd. Or I might just make a smaller pen and leave her with the daughter, since she was great with her own daughters that I ended up having to sell.
     
  15. informative

    informative New Member

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    I would raise her offspring with limited contact with mama - then once you have the harvested the genes you want, sell her or there are always a bunch of good goat recipes to consider too. Either way turns a negative into a positive.
     
  16. Horsehair Braider

    Horsehair Braider New Member

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    I think it matters how many goats you have and how much work you have to do. If you only have two goats, a mean one like that might be worth keeping, or if she lives alone as someone's pet that's a great situation for her.

    I don't keep any goats that cause me extra work or trouble, because I have too much stuff to do to be messing around with them all the time. If I just had one pet goat that would be fine, but I've got more than that and they are not pets. I've learned to move the trouble makers and problem causers somewhere else - as Ray says, either down the road or in the freezer. I haven't got the time to mess with them.

    This is to say, unless your pens are set up so that you *could* keep her separate very easily, personally, I'd just try and find another goat. And who knows, at someone else's place she may be a complete angel. I've had lots of animals that were problematic at their original place, and then due to my management, the social group they are in or whatever, are totally fine at my place.
     
  17. lorit

    lorit Senior Member

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    Personally it is never worth the stress to either me or the other goats. :) Get a keeper doeling from her and move her on. :)
     
  18. wheytogosaanens

    wheytogosaanens New Member

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    I would separate her from the herd until she kids so she can't cause injuries or abortions.

    Sell her as a doe in milk after she kids. With Saanens, we don't have these problems, but we did have a mean Boer doe that I had to separate out...she was great for training the younger Great Pyrenees their manners. Never could sell her as people always wanted to know why this great goat was so much less than the other ones for sale. I would tell them "because her name is Mean-a Athena". She ended up in the freezer. Got great kids from her and they were not mean.
     
  19. PrairieTrail45

    PrairieTrail45 New Member

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    I've got one like this, an Alpine. When I got her she was at the bottom of the pecking order, but she has risen to the top. And she is ruthless. My new Saanens are so sweet and docile, but she will take a swing at them if she can. Her favorite thing to do is stand at the entrance to the barn and "guard" it so no one else can come in to be milked. I usually have to go out there and shoo her outside. If it is raining out, I pen her up so the others can come in, otherwise she will make the meek ones stand in the rain.

    I would have sold her as a bred doe already, but she is AI bred to a really nice buck and I would love to have a doe kid from her, she had twin bucks last year so hopefully this year is a doe year for her.

    I can say she knows her name and if I get after her she will stop what she is doing, all I have to do is say "Texanna!". You can always tell when she has a guilty conscience too, if I walk past her and she is thinking bad thoughts she will jump away, if she isn't she will just stand there and look at me.

    I have another one who used to be mean, she has calmed down, but she also knew her name. One time she was getting ready to slam a doe, she didn't know I was standing in the doorway and I said "Tornado!" and she spun her head around and stopped so fast she left skid marks about 18 inches long!
     
  20. Twillingate Farm

    Twillingate Farm New Member

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    Every herd must have that "Queen" dominator! My "queen" discovered that she was a commoner when we put our buck in the herd. He was 100% in-charge without ever having to prove it through violence. I swear he'd just look at her with that look and she'd sheepishly skulk off to avoid confrontation. Peace reigned in the goatdom for two years until we sold (gave) our buck back to the original owners and suddenly the "Queen" took up her scepter again.
    Our new buck came from our herd and doesn't have quite the authority his predecessor had but he does manage to intercede on behalf of the young ladies he grew up with. The situation is tolerable for the time being. We're adding another buckling to the mix in a few months... a Boer from another herd. Perhaps he'll reign her in.